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THF/WAR?
http://www.yarrthepirate.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4001		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Ponuh [ Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:01 am ]
Post subject:  THF/WAR?
Does it work? I've been reading up on it and the stats seem to lean WAY more for /War than /Nin, and really utsu isn't much use unless accidently you trick onto yourself or something. But is it practical? What's the reason I'm asking this? Well I kind of want to level thief but stupidly I sold my utsu scroll a long time ago lol.

So i've brought this to trial for the masters of ifrit to decide. Allakhazam sucks, by the way.

Oh PS: ERic if you're reading this I hate your fucking guts you pompous asshole.
Author:  Lazyazn [ Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:24 am ]
Post subject: 
depends on situation
solo -> /nin
PT mobs aoe? mob run faster then you? /nin
no aoe? mob run same or slower then you? /war
and thats basicly it haha

Edit: some... um... misuse of english <.<
Author:  Kaniko [ Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:08 am ]
Post subject: 
and.... war kirrs better
Author:  Nchynk [ Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:45 am ]
Post subject: 
and u get 2 daggers with nin! wootz
Author:  Lazyazn [ Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:06 am ]
Post subject: 
the sub dagger really dont make much diff, berserk+warcry covers that
TP build is about the same
Author:  Pirato [ Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:03 am ]
Post subject: 
/WAR is a very good sub, also holding 1 dagger makes you SATA much faster than with 2.
One of the problems though is when you equip item like Bomb Core, only way I see to pull is by provoking (not good) or throwing your 300K bomb core at the prey.
Author:  Matti [ Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:04 am ]
Post subject: 
I've done this before at 70 and I must say that I prefer it to /nin. You get all kinds of attack bonuses from war sub plus you can use Viking shield or Strike shield for even more + attack. It's great.
Author:  Parade [ Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:28 am ]
Post subject: 
depends on what level your thf is ponuh, if its kinda low and your soloing or in valkrum, i think the extra strength would do you good, but to do that at higher levels would be pointless

when your ingame do "/sea all thf" and look to see how many have a war sub and ask them how they like it.
Author:  Alpsyche [ Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
I was exclusive /war til 50 thief.

Swapped to /nin and have been converted since.

However - since 70 - the /war would be awesome. My second dagger isn't all that exciting. I sold off the expensive one as I wasn't getting the TP I wanted.

Since I still end up pulling deep into the chain - the blink is a real nice touch. It sucks to get back to camp 1/2 dead from a no blink walking pull.
Author:  Sygus [ Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
/nin extra agi and dex adds up on SaTa. Plus you get faster attack rate with /nin that can't be reliably compensate by double attack. More attacks means more tp. You might get slightly better damage on Statues with /war and other very high def mobs. So both are pretty good damage wise but /nin practical spells like Tonko and Utsusemi make it better IMO.
Author:  Matti [ Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have to dissagree with more tp. With /war it's pretty close and sometimes better than /nin. Sure, you get dual weild but you still add the delay of that extra dagger into the mix and lose double attack. This, of course, is easily argued with using Hornettneedle in off-hand but this still doesn't copensate for loss of +str, warcry, berserk, double attack, and attack bonus from war sub.

As far as getting more dex/agi from nin, this is not constant with every race. For example, elvaan would benefit more from /nin because they have a naturally low dex/agi stat. Mithra on the other hand would benefit more from /war becuase of their naturally low str.

With all these variables it's hard to make an 'apples to apples' comparison about which sub is better for thf main. The best bet would be try both and just keep whatever makes you kick more ass. :)
Author:  Sygus [ Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well if you are telling me Lazy would do even more TP with /war Samurai should all go kill themself right now. :P

Just kidding I would invite thf/war the same but after parsing Lazy on statue with both sub the difference was only 5% dmg and those are about the worst kind of mobs for thief. Anyway use whichever you prefer except on mobs with AoE stun where /nin is better for obvious reasons.
Author:  Matti [ Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sygus wrote:
Well if you are telling me Lazy would do even more TP with /war Samurai should all go kill themself right now. :P

Just kidding I would invite thf/war the same but after parsing Lazy on statue with both sub the difference was only 5% dmg and those are about the worst kind of mobs for thief. Anyway use whichever you prefer except on mobs with AoE stun where /nin is better for obvious reasons.


Interesting. As thf/war my sata ws were always noticably higher...
Author:  Sygus [ Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
Nah Im talking about the overall dps. Maybe SaTa were higher or maybe Lazy was just sucking that day.
Author:  Theterk [ Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
by subbing /nin, you are givin a AGI bonus, and possible a DEX bonus. SA deals with AGI, and TA deals with DEX. Sub'ing war might give you higher damage output hit for hit, but with extra AGI/DEX you will be making the 700+ viper bites/shark bites. Also, having utsusemi is helpful because if you have a long pull, those extra 3 hits could be life or death.
Author:  Matti [ Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Gavin wrote:
by subbing /nin, you are givin a AGI bonus, and possible a DEX bonus. SA deals with AGI, and TA deals with DEX. Sub'ing war might give you higher damage output hit for hit, but with extra AGI/DEX you will be making the 700+ viper bites/shark bites. Also, having utsusemi is helpful because if you have a long pull, those extra 3 hits could be life or death.


So, based on your theory, "a couple" points of Agi and/or Dex will out weigh the potential for more than a couple points of Attack. Is this right? I'm not trying to argue which is better but I don't see how this works out. Yes, I know dex/agi are multipliers for sa and ta, however, it also calculates based on your attack and str just like any normal attack. With that said, raising your attack and str will directly affect your sata damage. Nin also has the lowest CHR rating in the game which is a multiplier for Dancing Edge. :wink:
Author:  Theterk [ Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
well Matti, sure str, atk, and other stats are associated into every attack, but agi and dex should be your main points of interest. Personally, i would try out both and see which you like better, cuz after all its about what YOU want to do.

Another addition is with dual wield, u can equip weapons that enhance stats on both hands, so by equipping 2 daggers you get 2x the effect.
Author:  Tsusuwusu [ Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
Pirato wrote:
only way I see to pull is by provoking (not good) or throwing your 300K bomb core at the prey.


I throw one twice a week.
Author:  Lazyazn [ Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
syg those statues gots wayyyyyy more defense then weapons haha
if i did /war on weapons i would prolly do more ...
but get stund

wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more too -_-;;;
Author:  Kioto [ Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
i dont like /war sub.

But it does work alright.
Author:  Sygus [ Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:14 am ]
Post subject: 
Lazyazn wrote:
syg those statues gots wayyyyyy more defense then weapons haha
if i did /war on weapons i would prolly do more ...
but get stund

wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more too -_-;;;


I was talking about parser of statue only with both sub. But this thief thing is too much of a headache. I decided to use only drk and rng now cause ppl who mainly play thief can't stay awake while you powerlvl their samurai sub.
Author:  Lazyazn [ Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:41 am ]
Post subject: 
Sygus wrote:
Lazyazn wrote:
syg those statues gots wayyyyyy more defense then weapons haha
if i did /war on weapons i would prolly do more ...
but get stund

wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more too -_-;;;


I was talking about parser of statue only with both sub. But this thief thing is too much of a headache. I decided to use only drk and rng now cause ppl who mainly play thief can't stay awake while you powerlvl their samurai sub.

:oops: :oops:
Author:  Xiona [ Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
i hate /war for thf. sorry id rather use /rng and def down bolts then /war sub (only enguaging to sata ws)
Author:  Lazyazn [ Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
those bolts land well enuf with R acc rings and capd marksmenship + dusk trousers :P
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