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My thoughts on wise gear.
http://www.yarrthepirate.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4128
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Author:  Shadowstalker [ Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  My thoughts on wise gear.

I’ve been looking into these pieces a lot lately, perhaps to try and figure out which pieces are worth the money and which are just crap. So far I’ve seen a few NA people with pieces- Corwin, Ruby, Aximilli and myself I can think of off hand.

The biggest thing I’ve been concerning myself with is the magic accuracy traits on the pants, head and the body. From what I’ve observed/read up on, there are 3 rumors as to exactly what it does:

A 1:1 ratio between corresponding skill and accuracy- The accuracy applies to offensive spells only, so enfeebling, elemental and dark magic are the only skills that apply in this case. So +3 magic accuracy would be +3 elemental, enfeebling and dark magic.


A 2:1 ratio between corresponding skill and accuracy- same thing as above, only +6 skill.


Accuracy serves as a % of current skill- the red mage’s skill raises by X% of it’s current value, where X is the amount of magic accuracy bonuses from equipment or merits.

Ex. 300 enfeebling skill + 3 magic accuracy serves as 309 enfeebling.


I have noticed a significant change in the resist rates of HNM/gods since I started dumping merits into wind, ice and earth accuracy. Before, especially during the latter stretch of Kirin, it was difficult to land gravity and have it stick for any decent amount of time. Now, I have hardly any problems landing it and the duration has increased. Because of this, I have to rule rumor one out. I’ve tested resist rates on gods with both staves and the thanatos baselard (+4 enfeebling,) and it was hardly noticeable. The merit description reads as “Increases accuracy of (element) spells by 3.” I have +6 wind accuracy, so it’s either +12 skill to the corresponding element, (which is more than two levels worth in skill,) or assuming 300 enfeebling magic, +18. With A+ enfeebling, it’s still only +5 a level, so that’s 3 and a half levels higher, and that seems like a bit much. However +12 doesn’t seem entirely unreasonable considering these merits are geared toward end game where everything is level 85+. So I think it’s a 2:1 skill to accuracy, which was my original thought when the JSE was released in the first place. The accuracy only serves to determine resist rates, and it’s a bit different than raw skill, (Dark magic skill adds both accuracy and attack, for example.)

The next question is, “Are people willing to give up stats for accuracy?” For dark magic, I’d say, “Of course!” but that’s only because RDM have E skill in dark magic, (cap at 200,) and get resisted more often than not. However for enfeebling it’s a little different. At each level there’s a certain range of effect that enfeebling spells have which I would believe is based on skill, (this applies to enhancing spells as well.) Spells like slow and blind are determined by a percentage and paralyze having a certain “proc” rate, (rate of effect.) Stats serve to determine which end of the range it falls on. MND for white magic enfeebles and INT for black magic enfeebles, of course. Using some of the wise gear in place of some of my other equipment, (zenith slacks or errant slops,) I also noticed the proc rate in paralyze decreased, despite using the same equipment otherwise. It’s difficult to determine similar results with slow and blind, and I don’t feel like grabbing a stopwatch to calculate how many tenths of a second faster a mob attacks or take a tally of how many times an DC mob hits me so I die. The only conclusion I could draw is that accuracy may increase the cap on the percentages at 75, but lower the potency marginally to balance things out. For elemental… I don’t really know. I think that’s sort of a personal preference. For stuff like fighting Kirin and gods, I don’t have time to nuke unless it’s like… Genbu, heh. I’m more focused on supporting people and if I’m /drk waiting to SP and stun. 75 XP I might consider it, considering arcana have a natural magic resist rate, (somewhere between 10-20% I think, ahriman being much higher) so any chance to reduce where I would get resisted normally, I’d probably take.

If I had a choice I’d keep around the hat, feet and legs, but that’s about it. The accuracy would be nice for end game stuff because landing it consistently is better than trying to have it be more effective and getting resisted. The hat despite it’s ugliness would prove more effective than af1’s +10 elemental skill, and some of us aren’t fortunate enough to have a duelist’s chapeau yet. (/poke Angiepoo) The legs for the sake of resistance and the feet would be nice to alternate between errant for enfeebling and another piece of MB gear, (I need more stuff to fit into the second macro I use for adding MB gear. >.>)

As far as the body goes, AF1 and crimson/errant > chasuble. +15 enfeebling magic is better than any of the ideas as to what magic accuracy does unless you have 330 enfeebling +. I'm sure as hell not spending 3.8 mil on something to add to a drain and aspir macro, and I play RDM as a support class and I'm not that aggressive with nuking.

Thoughts?

Author:  Gades [ Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:08 pm ]
Post subject: 

Very interresting read. I've been wondering a lot too about the potency of + Magic Accuracy. After putting some points in Wind Acc, i did notice improvement on the acc of Silence on Aura Pots, and Gravity still land good after the mob build his resistance.

I've been wanting to buy the pants for some time, but i think i'll wait until the price drop a little or until i find someone that can craft them for me.


Shadowstalker wrote:
Using some of the wise gear in place of some of my other equipment, (zenith slacks or errant slops,) I also noticed the proc rate in paralyze decreased, despite using the same equipment otherwise.
...
The only conclusion I could draw is that accuracy may increase the cap on the percentages at 75, but lower the potency marginally to balance things out.


Wouldn't that loss of proc on paralyse be attribued to the loss of +MND on the Zeniths/Errant?


Final note: We need more than 6 lines for each macro. Discuss.

Author:  Shadowstalker [ Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:10 pm ]
Post subject: 

Gades wrote:
Wouldn't that loss of proc on paralyse be attribued to the loss of +MND on the Zeniths/Errant?



Yeah that's what I meant, using the wise braconi in place of zenith or errant lowered the proc rate. I think it's a bit different for things like slow and blind and they use percentages like gear does ex. slow +15% or whatever.

Sorry if that didn't make more sense. =/

edit- I'd guess para would be a certain chance to paralyze a mobs attack cycle instead of it being a constant.

Author:  Gades [ Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:24 pm ]
Post subject: 

Or it's me that can't read well haha.

God i'm bored.

Author:  Lazyazn [ Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:14 pm ]
Post subject: 

2 RDM talking about rdm stuff...
{Goblin} {Can I have it?}

Author:  Chanalix [ Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:19 pm ]
Post subject: 

My own tests with wind merits support a greater than 1:1 ratio accuracy to skill.

In the long run, it just means that I'm going to add an entirely new set of macros for most enfeebles.

Set 1 - Enfeebling things that aren't likely to resist. This set will equip wand instead of staves, and max MND or INT depending on the spell.

Set 2 - Enfeebling things that are likely to resist. This set will equip staves and skill/accuracy equip at the expense of proc rate.

As with SS, I tend to play more of a support role, and lay low on nuking, but with our less than stellar elemental skill, I'd equip skill and accuracy gear for nukes and dark magic on all exp or higher mobs.

My personal priority for the Wise set is:

Legs - El Toro leather purchased!
Head - Coming soon
Body - When I have 4m and nothing to spend it on but being a pretend BLM (read a long time coming, in a galaxy far far away)
Hands - Not getting them
Feet - Ditto, Mithra RSE2 is better

Something I've been rolling around in my head, is if this setup does allow something like an 80% success of landing enfeebles on gods and Kirin, wouldn't it be interesting to assign enfeebles by RDM race. I know I've complained to SS many many times about the 8 point gap in our base MND, and I'm only slightly consoled by the fact that he's not so... INT ;)

If enfeebles are more likely to land, wouldn't it be nice to have an Elvaan Slow over a Mithran one, or a Taru Gravity over an Elvaan one. Once we can all stop spamming spells as soon as our timers allow in hopes that they land, we can start to be smarter RDMs :D

And yes, please, more macro lines!

Author:  Shadowstalker [ Wed Mar 30, 2005 7:03 pm ]
Post subject: 

Yeah even adding like 2 more would be nice.

I hate using 2 macros for one spell. haha

Author:  Centhea [ Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:42 am ]
Post subject: 

Wow...you put a lot of thought into that post...nice job...now go get a life! (j/k)

Author:  Sygus [ Thu Mar 31, 2005 12:55 pm ]
Post subject: 

This thread looks like a regular conversation between me and Gades on MSN. I wish I could get some of that earth acc merit you guys have instead of +1 attack on minuet though.

I never really gave much attention to the rate of effect of debuff but other than the song being lvl59, bard monstrous charisma might explain carnage elegy efficacity.

Anyway if I were you guys I would step on my pride on use the ugly JSE for HNM/gods. :wink:

Author:  Shadowstalker [ Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:12 pm ]
Post subject: 

Centhea wrote:
Wow...you put a lot of thought into that post...nice job...now go get a life! (j/k)


Yep, 20 minutes to write a post is better than spending a few hours or more in FFXI.

Author:  Gades [ Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:28 pm ]
Post subject: 

Strangely, this topic didnt get any replies on the KI RDM board. Probably because it wasnt about "At which level should I get sniper rings to melee" or "Should i keep Gravity as a last resort spell".

Author:  Centhea [ Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:37 pm ]
Post subject: 

Shadowstalker wrote:
Yep, 20 minutes to write a post is better than spending a few hours or more in FFXI.


SS...like I said in the original comment...nice job. Obviously, you spent a few hours or more researching and analyzing that issue that it took 20 minutes for you to write up.

Author:  Shadowstalker [ Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:27 pm ]
Post subject: 

Gades wrote:
Strangely, this topic didnt get any replies on the KI RDM board. Probably because it wasnt about "At which level should I get sniper rings to melee" or "Should i keep Gravity as a last resort spell".


LOL

Author:  Volrath [ Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:01 pm ]
Post subject: 

We all know RDM/DRK is so you can souleater/last resort weapon bash Kirin with a staff. What else is there for RDM to do?

Author:  Shadowstalker [ Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:08 pm ]
Post subject: 

Volrath wrote:
We all know RDM/DRK is so you can souleater/last resort weapon bash Kirin with a staff.


Dude, go to hell. I stopped like 3 stonegas because of that haha.

Author:  Mikey [ Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:10 pm ]
Post subject: 

ss your sig is brilliant lol

Author:  Volrath [ Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:16 pm ]
Post subject: 

Haha thats awesome, i remember the time angie did it at the start and kirin killed her haha.

Author:  Shadowstalker [ Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:46 pm ]
Post subject: 

Sygus wrote:
I never really gave much attention to the rate of effect of debuff but other than the song being lvl59, bard monstrous charisma might explain carnage elegy efficacity.


I'd imagine it's total charisma vs. mobs total charisma. For elegy it would work like slow, for requiem I guess it would increase the rate of DoT, but I'm not even entirely sure if that's the case for poison.

I'd be interested to play around with bard a little bit just to get some better understanding of the job. I don't really know much about it other than having high charisma is good for offensive songs.

Author:  Oxayotl [ Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:06 am ]
Post subject: 

Shadowstalker wrote:
Sygus wrote:
I never really gave much attention to the rate of effect of debuff but other than the song being lvl59, bard monstrous charisma might explain carnage elegy efficacity.


I'd imagine it's total charisma vs. mobs total charisma. For elegy it would work like slow, for requiem I guess it would increase the rate of DoT, but I'm not even entirely sure if that's the case for poison.

I'd be interested to play around with bard a little bit just to get some better understanding of the job. I don't really know much about it other than having high charisma is good for offensive songs.


Dont know if it was total charisma vs. mobs total charisma. When I 2houred and had like +116 chr or something +70 base chr I got the same resists on gods as with +30 chr. You not gonna tell me a lvl 90 mob has more than 186 chr >.>

Also there is a certain point where you can get so many +chr stuff for bard but that is also overrated. Specially in the last levels, with like +20 chr I never had any problems landing elegy on expmobs.

Biggest difference in resists for me had to do with equipping earth/terra staff vs no staff.

Author:  Oxayotl [ Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:08 am ]
Post subject: 

I think requiem is only there to cap out stringskill btw :P horrible resistrate.

Author:  Rakeen [ Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:14 am ]
Post subject: 

My thoughts on the Wise Gear:

I think its Wise not to buy this gear.

Nah jk, the magic accuracy parts of it is the only thing that i feel is worth it. So maybe just get the pieces that give the most acc+. Other than that I dont see much use for it and its certainly not going to replace any pieces altogether and im sure most RDMs like myself almost always walk around with 40+ pieces of rdm gear on most occasions.

Personally i would jus get those certain pieces that give the most magic acc+ even though i usually like to have a whole set if i can.

Author:  Tsusuwusu [ Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:31 am ]
Post subject: 

Wise Cap looks like a condum.

Author:  Ponuh [ Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:33 am ]
Post subject: 

Haha, shadowstalker takes the complex route when it comes to finding the true values and abilities for his red mage.

That's why he was elvaan... :?

Author:  Havok [ Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:44 am ]
Post subject: 

enfeebling has to do with MND stat correct? and which race has the highest MND?... 8)

Oh, and if mnd doesn't affect enfeebling at all, then I get to look like a dumbshit, lol.

Author:  Shadowstalker [ Fri Apr 01, 2005 2:01 am ]
Post subject: 

Havok wrote:
enfeebling has to do with MND stat correct? and which race has the highest MND?... 8)

Oh, and if mnd doesn't affect enfeebling at all, then I get to look like a dumbshit, lol.


It affects white magic based enfeebling spells only.

Slow
Paralyze
Dia
Silence

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