I saw some whining in the DRK JSE thread about how DRG get the shaft, equipment wise, so what kinds of things would be good for a set of DRG JSE?

Be reasonable. It can't be like STR +10932894732 Accuracy +9082342903 and makes all polearm weaponskills ignore defense and VIT, because that would be sick ;p

The Barone set is actually pretty nice, but yea...warriors get to use it too. I don't really care though since I'm leveling warrior as well :P

You have to admit though, the dragon mail set serves little use other than crafting it into the cursed crimson pieces haha.

I'd like to see a set with str+ and dex+ though. Both are damage modifiers for penta thrust. That's what the hecatomb set has, but I'm not likely to get a full set of that anytime soon. Really i could care less about most of a JSE set as long as the body piece is good. That's where we have it the hardest right now. Right now, the best option we have is the Assault jerkin (which i finally got btw ), and I have narasimha's vest macroed in for wheeling thrust. The barone body is nice yea...but obviously really really expensive. I think there are like 2 of them on the server right now. So I guess i want a body piece that gives some boosts to str,dex, and maybe some attack...something to compare with haubergeon/hauberk/byrnie.

Oh and I want them to work on the Bourdonasse lance. Yea it does blunt damage and I can own skeletons almost as well as a monk, but when you do weapon skills with it they still count as piercing damage, so they do shit damage.

I'll come up with more ideas tomorrow when I'm not tired

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Havok~San'd Rank 10~ZM DONE~CoP DONE
DRG75 WAR75 NIN37 THF37 SAM37 WHM36

Honestly, I don't really like the hecatomb set for any job, especially drg. The only thing I would use it for is ws macros. I'd like to do swing as much as possible if I couldn't keep up with DoT of other jobs because most of the damage comes from ws.

Some armor with haste+% would be hot for DRG. Every other melee job except probably DRK, (who have access to thinks like armada hauberk thick set etc. Hell, give them haste gear as well.) have access to haste gear that's either rare/ex or not impossible to get. Sorry, the speed belt doesn't count. ;p

Gae Bolg, arguably the best lance for drg has a delay of 551, (I think Ice Lance +1 is better, personally... I'd trade 2 damage for almost 100 less delay.) Looking through a list of equipment the only other weapons I see with more delay are like guns for RNG.

With an inherent accuracy bonus trait, for skills other than penta thrust I'd like to see something like.

STR +5
DEX+5
Attack +12
Accuracy +5
Haste +4%

for a body piece. I don't think it's entirely unreasonable. You're sacrificing a little bit of attack from assault jerkin, picking up some accuracy, and adding to stats with are essential to already hurting weapon skills.

Aside from that, I'd be interested in a set of JSE that does something for the wyvern. Like I know the af2 body adds support job abilities to wyvern or whatever, but that's totally dependent on what you're subbing. I'd also like to see sometihng that makes spirit link less gay for mages. Like a piece that you could macro equip in that enhances spirit link, (takes away less HP for the same amount healed.)

With the wyvern, being able to control the pet like a bst or smn would be pretty neat. You could feed it to enhance abilities or use certain abilities the wyvern gets as it's master becomes more powerful. I dunno I'm jsut rambling off the top of my head.

But yeah, pieces of the barone set are really good, the legs in particular.

I don't mind DRG at all, I just wish SE would stop being retarded with their ws.

Just let drg wear haub.

I like a variety in equipment. lol

That's why I hate how SE is being lazy and just recycles old equipment with a new look.

Hecatomb set is actually rather effective with dragoon, the slow effect is hardly noticeable. Even with slow we still have things such as jump at our exposal to catch up with TP and extremely good accuracy.

In all honesty I could care less about armor, really I believe the armor choices we have are fine as they are. Dragoon seems to be a low enmity DOT DD, give them too much power and it would offset that purpose.

Really what I would like to see is some tweaks on the class itself.
Namely making it so that AOE doesn't instant-kill wyvern as it hinders dragoon far too much. And lastly just some token anything ability or trait that would give us a purpose in endgame activities.
Every class has one small token ability, save dragoon.
Pebbles anyone?

The gargoyle boots seemed like a good answer to the higher hnm issue, although they are /rare /ex and so far no one across any server has been able to obtain them. The monster which procures the boots appears randomly once every 5 years it seems.
The new wyvern feed item which gives your wyvern regen doesn't stop the fact that they are so fragil and any at all attack from an HNM/god would one shot them.

I leveled dragoon to 75. Now what? I get to stand around and look pretty and not much more. *^^*

DRG jse already exists, but no one talks about it because it's basically useless. SE should just improve the stats.

STR
ATTK
Haste

This is what the DRG JSE needs. On top of giving our Wyvern abilites like SMN and BST. Weaponskill dmg is fine, regular damage contradictory to popular belief is awesome. Give us this and I'm happy.

Yeah, but you're talking to someone who notices even slight variations in casting time using different levels of fast cast, like less than half second differences (combination of AF2 body AF1 hat and three levels of job traits,) Ultimately it would start to bother me. That's why I don't like it.

Question- would using a set of Hecatomb gear increase the jump timers due the slow?

lol slow or haste doesnt affect /ja timers

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75WHM / 37SMN / 61BLM / 37RDM / 70BRD / 75NIN / 75RNG / 56THF / 37WAR / 37DRG http://www.myspace.com/dan_wyld

I didn't know. I only have one JA and I use it like every 20 minutes lol ;p

edit- Yes I realize I have a 50+ WAR, but seriously... how often did you get haste leveling a melee job at around 52 unless you were partying with people leveling their second job?

I'm sure Drg have better DoT than all melee on end game mob (ignore def WS, good acc), not to mention they can do nice with Whm sub.

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Main: War75/Sam63/Blm71/Rng45
Sub: Nin37/Thf37/Whm37/Mnk30
Three nation: Done Zilart: Done CoP: Done

drg can solo better than most melee in the game, they should stfu :P
i think id be crying to be able to use vermillion if anything if i were drg

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WHM75 RDM75 SMN75
Leather 100+2+lv3 moghancement Cloth 60 Smithing 60 Gold 50

You've basically all made good points. Personally as a 72 dragoon, my max damage rivals that of any drk with above avg gear, we both him roughly 100 tops (depending on Drk weapon) If Scythe, I usually see about 110-130 tops, with GS, about 90-95 tops. me personally, I hit in the 85-95 range with my GK lance, which I don't consider too bad when I hit 8-9/10 hits. but, with NA players always pushing the limits with xp, always wanting to fight mobs that'll get you 200+ exp a fight.. it becomes very troublesome when I'm hitting just as hard as a thf (down to the 10-30 range) I think NA players expect the same preformance from every job. Take level 52ish for example. Where does everyone go? Kuftal Tunnel.. crabs, they're easy. Dragoons are obviously terrible vs crabs (although in cape terrigan I did my darndest to keep 80+ damage every hit) anyways. People just don't accomodate to jobs in the party. They'd rather over-nuke and waste mp on crabs, rather than go to Crawlers nest and do Knight Crawlers, or do Spiders in Boyodha.. (I know people hate spiders, but the crawlers are nice). I'd also like to point out KRT, at 53 with a bard I was whacking away for nearly 200 on bats rarely missing. And to a lesser extent I think I found 1 camp in Bostineaux Ob. << I can't spell that. Dragoon are not gimped, they're just set to standards of other jobs strong points. I really enjoyed hitting level 68ish and being able to go to Kuftal Tunnel.. I was ripping the hate off basically every ninja/paladin. (That includes you Hccmike! (at 70-71)) but yeah, I fair better against tigers/cocktrice than I would against say goblins. IF SE were to give dragoons a boost in gear, all I would ask for is maybe +1-2 STR, and a little boost in attack, maybe 6-8. Assualt Jerkin works nice (wish I had it) buy a better mask/helm at 60+ with someone of those stats would be nice. I keep my AF boots for the random extra 100-200 jump damage. I used RSE pants (being elvaan) till 70, barone are really nice. gloves are fine. AF (wyvern accuracy).. there's not much to change. Just parties are too ignorant to accomodate to us. "OMGZ I LEVELED WITH CRABS WITH MNKS THEY"RE WICKED." when you can do bats faster and for more xp.. they're just scared of a new place. What people don't realize is the effectiveness of the Wyvern. Vhiki (mine <3) Hits for an avg of 25-35 a hit, and for 2 of my hits, she hits 3 times. maybe misses 1/5 hits. She can critical for up to 70 damage. that's pretty effective when I'm hitting 80-90. So say for 2 of my hits, I do avg 85 each. thats 170 dmg, add 3 hits of 25 from vhiki, thats +75, so 255 damage for 2 of my hits... not too shabby. add in an extra 100-150 for each of my WS's, so wheeling 500 +100 fire breath. Dragoons arent the strongest, we're not the fastest. but put us in the right setup.. with a thief, drk, doesn't matter and put us against the right mobs, and we'll do good. And btw.. I can out-tp any job. Exclude ranger due to barrage (without it, I out-tp them) and Samurai cause of Meditate, I can only keep up with them, not beat them. No other job beats me to 100 tp.. ever. Not even Angie's thf with her snipers, optical hat, scorion harness, tripple attack. I still out-tp'd her 19/20 times

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My next job im going to lvl is DRG, because it seems like a hard job to lvl and i like challenges. i think drg is more of a challenge than it is being the uber l33t job or w/e alot of drg's dont realize there lil pet does damage too which contributes to the party. I think all jobs need a JSE just because its not fair to give one job something special and not give the other one anything

Hee hee yeah, hecatomb can't effect my jump timer, only my lance delay. I out TP gain most job classes (with drk sometimes I would skillchain once solo and once with them if they were slow on same mob) so the dealy is really moot.

Jump is a job ability that does a forced attack with the dual purpose of shedding hate in a percentage tier depending on which one you use.
But because jump is technically an attack you can aslo set off double attack on it or if you're quick enough SATA if you have nothing better to do with it.
Depeding on how you use it jump can do very good damage, off set hate, and gain TP at same time. I think my best Jump was 548 damage which was probably a critical and a double attack at same time.
On average I get 15 tp return. Jump without excluding any merit reduction's timer is 1:30.
High jump is much the same but depending on the drg can be used for dmg/tp gain or saved for being Trick partner. In which case if you are fast enough the mob will never transfer hate from a thf's weaponskill if its done with a drg and high jump. Super jump doesn't actually engage a mob therefore it does no damage and gains no TP. Its a really fun joke in XP party to run up to some uber hard mob and do a super jump macro. >:) scare them whitless. haha.

Wyvern is also a nice bonus as lots of people forget that wyvern is blunt damage. So things that your dragoon may be lacking in due to piercing penalties (such as lower level on crabs) your wyvern is actually getting a bonus and indirectly balancing it out sort of. With mage sub depending on your equip you can cure for 200-400ish hp for 4-7 mp cost.
I just wish wyvern could outlast AOE as we'd be really great back up healers on end game material.

I don't think anything is wrong with dragoon 1-75. Honestly I think the class works fine, much of the stigma is mostly from either really bad experiances with people who didn't know how to play drg well, or not understanding drg's role in the first place. It also took a really long time for many people to get over penta spamming, in more ways than one.
So I ask SE absolutely nothing about equip and what-not for leveling purposes, I honestly don't think dragoon needs help there. What I'd really like to see is something that made dragoon playable /after/ xp is done with. As no matter how hard someoen may whine at level 60 trying to get level 61 all their hard work is in the very end unappreciated.

Sure we can do spirits within, i hear SATA wheeling thrust is ok on the gods...but I can't help but feel there isn't one small thing missing there.
Maybe I'm a bit harsh in my judgement, as I've been playing end game as a 75 bard for a long time now and its really hard to compaire usefulness of bard to anythign my dragoon can do. I just find it sad that there's pretty much never a time when dragoon is ideal to be around. Heck, we're not even effective against wyverns and dragons.
Why make dragons resistant to piercing but piercing being the dragoon's style of attack...amongst other things doesn't quite make sense to me.
I'd just like one small token job ability or trait on dragoon that would make someone tell me they need me.

Sorry I'm rambling horrifically its 3 am and I have no idea what i'm doing anymore.

I don't understand how jump can reduce hate by a set amount when it can be up to 3X the damage of a normal attack. oO

Just to note my jump without setting off any job traits is 150-200 that's pretty on average or slightly above the damage I do on normal melee attack.
Jump -25% hate reduction high jump - 75% super jump -100%

The hate shedding is pretty powerful as long as someone else in your party has a substantial amount of hate previously for it to transfer to.
IE you hope and prey its the tank. ;) as sometimes jump will move mob unto a mage once in a blue moon.

Jump which is the one you most commonly use for damage and will most frequently see the highest damage can potentionally still leave you with hate and spin mob but its extremely rare. And in the case that you do grab hate just apply either one of your other two jumps and problem solved.

Ah.. I didn't know the exact numbers. Thanks.

I've seen some DRG (Exo and Kilik, the only ones I've really pt with at 75 XP,) do like 400 point jumps on aura weapons.

I've actually considered leveling DRG as a job, I just don't know if I could deal with.

SS: Hey want to pt?
Person: Sorry I don't pt with lame weak drg.
SS: >.>

GOD YES PLEASE!

I agree with Kioko entirely. People really underestimate Wyvern's capibility. Even if we do 30 less dmg than drk, Wyvern matches it up. And a lot of people say wyvern is useless. Most are ignorant people with level 1 drgs.. if it's even unlocked. If people actually tried drgs, and had decent gear with them, they'd realize they aren't bad. I agree that we do get stiffed on WS's though. We're openers, granted, but Opening Distortion with a 3-hit Skewer that ends up only doing 115 damage.. not quite good.

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drgs really NEED the be able the position their pet at will anywhere they want...
cuz being a thf... only thing i have against a drg is the pet getting in my way... o and they get tend to take more dmg then other jobs for being first voke
where as
war get utsu (/nin)
sam get 3rd eye
mnk massive HP pool
other then that i love drgs (especially charonne )

and wyrms and dragons are really resistant to pierceing? @@;
never noticed

on the side note:lets cyber

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oops, forgot about this topic ><.

Hecatomb stuff yea, I would only swap it in for WS, I really couldn't stand a longer delay between attacks, which is why I have no desire to get a Gae bolg myself. I'm absolutely loving my ice lance+1 since I hit 74.

It would be nice if some JSE would make our wyverns more durable to survive harsh AoE attacks, so when using mage sub we could actually be a really really good healer (especially with AF2 head piece)

I dont know about regular Jump shedding hate. I have never lost hate after Jump, lol. I honestly can't figure out how Jump damage is calculated either. I'm sure it can critical, but I dont know about double attack because I've never gained any extra TP from it, and you should if it hits more than once right? I think ive done a jump for 580+ before, and I've done over 450 plenty of times.

I agree with Kioko. Please, just give us SOMETHING special that we can do for endgame stuff, something that another job can't do better...

I'm fine with the WS we have now. Sure, something more damaging would be nice, but what we have is good enough for me. We have been designated as skillchain openers, and not closers. Someone has to do it

To fix everything, just give us a new job trait, Quadruple Attack

bleh, why do i always post late at night when i can't get my thoughts out in some comprehensible way. I'm just typing a bunch of random thoughts

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Havok~San'd Rank 10~ZM DONE~CoP DONE
DRG75 WAR75 NIN37 THF37 SAM37 WHM36

How does wyvern mess up a theif? I fail to see how that's possible. ^^;

I do agree we wear light armor so if you're low level and still SATA'ing at start a slow theif can easily get a dragoon voker killed. I've come pretty close to it myself in the 60's.
However at higher level dragoon doesn't voke, rather theif SATA directly off the dragoon, dragoon jumps, no damage is taken what so ever.
So really that point only exists for lower level dragoons, but at 68-75 dragoon's one of your better theif pals. :) At least I like to think so.





I have gained extra TP from double attacking jump Havok. ^^
Double attack will not show as an animation rather you'll just gain more TP and do a heck of a lot more damage that what's remotely normal.
You can get double attack on weaponskills too, and gain extra TP back as well as do more damage.
Normal jump doesn't eraticate enough hate to say, shake off SATA. Rather it makes it almost as if you didn't strike the mob quite as much as you did. That's why sometimes you can hit a 400 something jump but yet not spin the mob. When I was soloing I noticed that jumping too early into the fight (when i didn't have much hate built up yet) the mob would trasnfer and start wailing on my wyvern. Meaning that the jump did in fact erase what small hate I had aquired, its only a small amount though.





Yeah um... I don't understand the logistics behind lance weaponskills.
I don't understand how every other job's multihit weaponskills are so much more accuracte than polearm. And yet almost ALL polearm weaponskills are multihit. SE needs to fix it so that polearm's multihit weaponskills are on par with every other weapon. If that was corrected I believe more dragoons would be readily invited into parties. Maybe the damage modifier is different for polearm with some unusual trait that dragoons don't equip for. Who knows....But its rather lame and nonsensical.