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 Post subject: "Addressing MPK Issues"
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:20 am 
Honey Muffin
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http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/information/1208.html

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MPK (Monster Player Kill) is a form of player harassment that has plagued many MMORPGs. MPK involves using one's character to purposely cause damage to other players or to unfairly take another's claimed target in the midst of battle. Several measures will be introduced in the next version update to counter these issues.

The upcoming measures are intended to deal with issues regarding the acquisition of items and claiming of monsters, rather than focusing on direct involvement in player disputes.

In previous updates, we have dealt with problems between players by changing fiercely competed-for items to Ex/Rare, changing the locations of certain notorious monsters, and introducing measures against the use of third-party tools that violate the user agreement. Several types of battlefield and burning circle areas were also added to decrease disputes between players.

The following measures were introduced in the version update on August 1, 2005 to further alleviate the issue.

-The command /blockaid was added.*(1)
-"Trade" offers could no longer be received from characters on a player's blacklist.
-Players were made unable to use spells or abilities to claim a monster as soon as it appeared.*(2)

However, interaction and competition with other players are what makes an MMORPG enjoyable, and we have no desire to sacrifice those aspects of FINAL FANTASY XI. Players may be affected by situations caused by others, such as suddenly finding oneself in the midst of a train of monsters led by another player trying to escape. Player interaction can be either positive or negative and is an important part of the game. It is essential for players to realize the importance of this interaction and enjoy it, cooperating with one another to solve any minor disputes that may arise.

Unfortunately, there have been several players as of late who have used game features to harass others, particularly in the form of MPK, or taking advantage of a monster's enmity to make it attack others and disrupt the game.

It is the role of the GM team to resolve such issues, but in several cases it can be difficult to determine whether a player intentionally caused a problem after consulting only the chat and action logs. Often there is a discrepancy between both sides of the dispute's claims. In such cases, it would not be proper to choose a side based on personal opinion or to listen to only one side's claims. Therefore, the issues best resolved have been those actually witnessed by the GM. Such difficulties have caused player disputes that require third-party intervention to increase, and we realize that in-game measures must be introduced to alleviate the situation.

In the next version update, we plan to introduce the following measures.

-If a player is KO'd or moves to a new area while fighting a monster at a location in which the monster does not usually inhabit, the monster will not begin attacking others in the surrounding area. Instead, it will simply disappear.

This measure refers to the radius that the monster walks about when not engaged in battle. After being drawn out of that radius during battle and released, the monster will disappear, and then reappear after a short time in its proper location. In addition, the monster that reappears will be the exact same monster that disappeared, and not another monster of the same type. This rule will not apply to notorious monsters.

-Monsters that have been rendered immobile with the "Bind" spell will not attack anyone other than the party or alliance that it is targeting.


The GM team will continue to penalize players who purposely harass others. The GMs will not deal with player disputes after hearing only one position, but will strive to find a solution after consulting all sides. We ask for your cooperation and understanding, and hope that you enjoy interacting with other players in the world of FINAL FANTASY XI.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*(1) The /blockaid command
The command "/blockaid" was added.
"/blockaid" has the following effect:
Magical assistance (such as "Cure" and "Protect"), trades, party invites etc. from non-party/alliance characters will be blocked.
The "/blockaid" effect will be canceled if the player temporarily logs out to the PlayOnline Viewer, logs out, changes areas, or is KO'd.

Command/Subcommands:
/blockaid on
Activate the blockaid effect.
/blockaid off
Cancel the blockaid effect.
/blockaid
Display current blockaid status.

*(2) Claiming monsters
Players are no longer able to use spells or abilities to claim a monster as soon as it appears.
If players attempt to use spells or abilities to claim a monster before a set amount of time has passed since it appeared, they will be unable to use those spells or abilities again for a certain duration.


FINAL FANTASY XI Development Team (12/08/2005)


I'm glad they are fixing the bind thing, shouldn't have been the way it was in the first place in my opinion. The mob disappearing thing seems weird, i'll have to reserve thoughts on that until I actually see it. I'm wondering if it will disturb long ranged party pulls, but I'm guessing its more for things that are literally half way from the zone. Will make training escaping easier, will make training for fun (not mpk) and farming harder. Who knowns.
(edited to bold the actual update blurb)


Last edited by Kioko on Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:24 am 
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Interesting...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:52 am 
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Its about time and I like the teleporting thing.

This is actually going to be interesting for all those times people just "trained" an area to clear an area with an NM.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:03 am 
Honey Muffin
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I wonder if this will effect mobs in dynamis. Like how most people's strategy is to train away the dragons from the eye mega in beaucidine.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:05 am 
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Kioko wrote:
I wonder if this will effect mobs in dynamis. Like how most people's strategy is to train away the dragons from the eye mega in beaucidine.



Wow that would certainly change the Mega Boss strategy for Beaucedine. Will be interesting indeed to see if that's affected.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:08 am 
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Probably would need a second reclaim group just for dragons and tag team train them every time they repop haha.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:11 am 
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Maybe I'm thinking about this wrong...but that seems like a weird fix. If you can only fight regular mobs in the area they normally move within, that's gonna mess with a lot of XP parties and we will see a lot more move-and-shoot XP rather than camp XP. Secondly, seems a little insane that RMT can still pull Simurgh to the Jeuno zone, but not the crabs and other little crap that spawns near it (yeah I know Simurgh isn't the main problem, but that's still insane). :shock:


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:12 am 
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It won't affect xp b/c the mob doesn't go unclaimed when you pull. It's only when the mob loses aggro on the original person that it will reset.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:14 am 
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Oh right...I missed the "and released" part. Thx^^


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:20 am 
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Omitting nm's from this does sound odd but I think it was done for the reason of unclaim. IE if an NM depops and repops it'll be at full hp and unclaimed, despite the original fighters' efforts.
It'd be almost amusing to see the cry fest if SE didn't allowing kiting NMs anymore. But I think its more or less done because people might accidently cross that boarder without intending to and lose their nm.

I'm pretty certain the boundry is signifigantly wide. Its pretty much to prevent things like people grabbing a level 50 skeleton from the depths of Garlaige and running up to the enterance killing all the level 30ish people.
But, if I'm reading this right, its still very much possible to kill people with short ranged suicide train mpk.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:22 am 
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It won't effect Dynamis. The update says won't effect NMs and all mobs in Dynamis con "Impossible to gauge!"

Also won't effect long party pulls unless the puller dies. It won't disappear until the player/party/alliance that pulled/fighting it dies.

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 Post subject: Re: "Addressing MPK Issues"
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:31 am 
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Quote:
This measure refers to the radius that the monster walks about when not engaged in battle. After being drawn out of that radius during battle and released, the monster will disappear, and then reappear after a short time in its proper location.

In addition, the monster that reappears will be the exact same monster that disappeared, and not another monster of the same type.

This rule will not apply to notorious monsters.
(I think they mean the exact sentence right before this statement, not the whole blurb)


The way I am reading this, it seems that if you pulled a NM out of its natrual area or radius, and lost claim or zoned, it would disappear, but the corresponding reappearance won't be the NM. Pull a crab in boyhada tree to the entrance, it will disappear and repop in the original location as a crab, pull Aqaurius to the entrance of the tree, it will disappear and repop as a normal crab not as aqaurius.

EDIT: I also am thinking that by saying The exact same monster that it might retain hate for the person even though they are gone, meaning it might chase you again if you get too close to it. Thats just me inferring into the statement a bit though.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:46 am 
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Kinda retarded update but whatever.

They should have manually tweeked fafnir/behemoth/aspi droprates according to end-game population on a per server basis.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:49 am 
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Guess I can't MPK gilsellers anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: "Addressing MPK Issues"
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:13 am 
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Daedalan wrote:
Quote:
This measure refers to the radius that the monster walks about when not engaged in battle. After being drawn out of that radius during battle and released, the monster will disappear, and then reappear after a short time in its proper location.

In addition, the monster that reappears will be the exact same monster that disappeared, and not another monster of the same type.

This rule will not apply to notorious monsters.
(I think they mean the exact sentence right before this statement, not the whole blurb)


The way I am reading this, it seems that if you pulled a NM out of its natrual area or radius, and lost claim or zoned, it would disappear, but the corresponding reappearance won't be the NM. Pull a crab in boyhada tree to the entrance, it will disappear and repop in the original location as a crab, pull Aqaurius to the entrance of the tree, it will disappear and repop as a normal crab not as aqaurius.

EDIT: I also am thinking that by saying The exact same monster that it might retain hate for the person even though they are gone, meaning it might chase you again if you get too close to it. Thats just me inferring into the statement a bit though.


reread that and everyone elses posts on this thread... it doesnt effect NM's lol

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:27 am 
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but you didn't really read my post though, what i was saying is that it says this rule does not apply to NMs, but they didn't specify which rule, there is two seperate rules in that paragraph. If you follow the logical way its read, the sentence directly preceeding it should be target of that comment, which would mean a NM would disappear but not repop as a NM.

then again it could mean the whole paragraph, who knows I was just trying to dissect the post a bit.

*Editted because I'm a buttmunch and jumped to the conclusion someone was trying to be a dick and really wasn't, my BAD*

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Last edited by Daedalan on Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:34 am 
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damn man calm the hell down haha.

im just pointing out that logically i severely doubt theyll allow a NM just to depop and repop as a PH. i also figured that by saying "this rule does not apply to NM's" it would mean the whole section of text seperated from the other rules.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:40 am 
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yeah they're saying that NMs wont dissapear and repop lol


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:48 am 
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i think they might still disappear... just not repop as a NM

making it not repop would keep people from pulling the same Nm over and over to the zone to hold claim while people get there to help

making it disappear though would keep people from doing that, and also it would keep people from pulling sub-par nms like guardian crawler just to watch it kill people on its way back. don't even know if its pullable, but I assume it is neva tried.

then again like i said it could just be that they don't disappear.. I'm leaning more towards the first part though, just seems like their talking about the one ruling not the whole paragraph.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:22 pm 
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Training stuff is fun...blah. Seeing a big train walk back to their home and doing carnage was always interesting.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:27 pm 
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I don't quite understand why people are crying about the idea of losing claim on a kited monster/NM or having their NMs depop and all that nonsense. It specifically states that the monster will "depop" if you are KO'd or zone.

It also states "It will not begin attacking others in the surrounding area." which leads me to believe that they are talking about a monster that has deaggroed. If you were fighting it with an EXP party or an Alliance, it's going to run after those people with hate when one person dies, it's not just going to poof the moment someone's HP hits 0.

Also, it says the "exact same monster" will reappear, it wont be a new one, it will be the exact same one. Ie: The monster went invisible and walked home, it did not "depop" and it was not killed. The reason they did that was so that you couldn't train a bunch of monsters to a zone in order to spawn an NM that requires you to kill it's PHs.

The thing about not applying to NMs is saying that an NM will not disappear if you zone it, it will proceed to run around and attack people (assuming it aggros) just like they used to.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:34 pm 
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Kaylia wrote:
Training stuff is fun...blah. Seeing a big train walk back to their home and doing carnage was always interesting.


Yeah it's like taking the fights out of hockey. Oh, wait. >_>

Really I don't see how this solves much anyway... usually MPK is in retaliation for NM stealing... here's a brilliant idea, just don't make the NM come unclaimed to begin with. :roll:

I guess it would solve things at Serket... then again noone camps that but RMT now anyway and they deserve a good MPK or three.

Also if this affects BST how it sounds like it will it's going to really blow. :/ Can't move your pets out of their normal | | radius? Yeah... blow.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:56 pm 
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Mys wrote:
Also if this affects BST how it sounds like it will it's going to really blow. :/ Can't move your pets out of their normal | | radius? Yeah... blow.



Shouldn't affect BST's it doesn't say anything about them. From what it says it's only when a player gets KO'd or zones so perhaps BST's can still MPK with release. Quick everyone go level BST!

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:04 pm 
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I don't like this update ... I don't like mpkers either but this just makes the AI system completed unrealistic. Rather then relying on players to be aware of their surroundings or GM enforcement... SE just changes the system completely. Good job!

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:27 pm 
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Runefury wrote:
I don't like this update ... I don't like mpkers either but this just makes the AI system completed unrealistic. Rather then relying on players to be aware of their surroundings or GM enforcement... SE just changes the system completely. Good job!


I have to agree with this. It takes away a bit of the realism (yes yes, in a game with midgets who cast magic and talking gorillas who are asexual, realism is a bit lacking already) and kind of dumbs down the concept of survival. Oh well, for the better I guess.


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