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 Post subject: Something about this makes me uncomfortable
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:21 pm 
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I mean what happens if it loses control?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/story ... 88,00.html

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In the beginning: scientists get ready to hunt for God particle


· Giant machine to recreate conditions of big bang
· Collider may create miniature black holes

Ian Sample, science correspondent
Monday November 20, 2006
The Guardian


At security posts dotted around the fields between the Jura mountains and Lake Geneva scientists are installing hi-tech retina scans above shafts descending 80m down - and leading to the largest scientific instrument ever built.
The machine is being bolted together inside a tunnel 17 miles (27km) long, and when the power is thrown on next year it will recreate conditions unknown for 14bn years since the extraordinary fireball that marked the beginning of the universe - the big bang which blasted time and space into existence.

In the coming months engineers using cranes will lower sections of detectors weighing several thousand tonnes into caverns carved within the tunnel. They will wire in some of the world's largest magnets and test run the machine's computer, built to handle a torrent of data equivalent to 150 times the content of the world wide web each year.

The machine, the Large Hadron Collider at Cern, Europe's particle physics laboratory, in Switzerland, was commissioned as a £4.2bn sledgehammer to crack some of the most compelling mysteries of the universe. Britain's stake in the project is enormous. This year alone £78m will be channelled into the experiment, where 600 British physicists are based.

The project may prise open extra dimensions and create baby black holes; it may reveal enigmatic "dark energy" that drives the expansion of the universe. It should certainly discover what some call the "God particle", finally answering the embarrassingly simple but elusive question of why things have mass.

In 1993 science minister William Waldegrave was so stumped by the notion of a God particle - correctly known as Higgs boson after the Edinburgh University physicist Peter Higgs who proposed it - that he offered a bottle of champagne to anyone who could explain it on one side of A4. The winning entry used the analogy of Margaret Thatcher gathering hangers-on as she moved through a cocktail party, to explain how Higgs bosons make other particles heavy by clinging to them like treacle. Finding the Higgs boson will confirm scientists' most complete theory of the universe and the matter from which it is created. "It's probably the closest to God that we'll get," said Jos Engelen, Cern's chief scientist.

Inside the collider vanishingly small protons, the particles at the heart of every atom, will be propelled to nearly the speed of light and slammed into other protons hurtling the other way. By the time they collide each proton will pack as much punch as a 400-tonne train travelling at 120mph. Every second an estimated 800m head-on collisions are expected, each unleashing a shower of subatomic debris for scientists to sift through.

Although the elusive Higgs particle may be created in collisions every day it will take enormous skill to spot them. Their existence is fleeting, each lasting less than a thousandth of a billionth of a billionth of a second.

Scientists will use the enormous 7,000-tonne Atlas detector, which sits inside a cavern large enough to house the nave of Westminster Abbey, to pick up other particles that can only be created when a Higgs boson vanishes from existence.

Other experiments will veer sharply into what has previously been the realm of science fiction. Some scientists believe the universe has more dimensions than the ones we know about. In one extra dimension gravity is believed to be exceptionally strong. If the collider momentarily wedges extra dimensions open, it could release a powerful tug of gravity that compresses matter so much it creates a miniature black hole.

Cern officials are keen to point out that there is no reason to be alarmed by artificial black holes. "You should not deduce that we are ready to build a black hole and Cern along with the planet will disappear, although this is a letter I receive every week," said Robert Aylmar, head of Cern.

Other detectors will investigate a theory called supersymmetry which predicts that there is a heavy invisible twin for every particle in the universe and which could explain why 90% of the material in the universe appears to be "missing" - a mystery that led scientists to name it "dark matter".

Valuable spin-offs from past research include the world wide web and the most advanced medical scanners found in hospitals. Professor Engelen admits there is no practical benefit in finding the Higgs Boson. "Even in my wildest imagination I can't think of this discovery having a practical application, but setting ourselves that goal, doing something so exceptionally difficult, has required us to be innovative technology-wise. I can very easily sell the idea of new and fundamental science using that argument, even though the Higgs itself is not going to let you make a better toothpaste," he said.




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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:42 pm 
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Yeah I heard about this a few years ago. It is kind of freaky as it's a step into the unknown and everything.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:42 pm 
DL Hughley
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sweet mother of science

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:01 pm 
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They're spending all that money after the guy said that it will have no practical use? lol

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:36 pm 
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well, he says the black holes won't do shit, but then he said they're possibly opening up other dimensions.

also, lol at 150times the amount of data on the web. i wonder how much pr0n that is


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:23 am 
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damnit dont rip open black hole portals, start making minotaurs and mermaids, i dont think its "playing god" because 1. I dont believe in god really and 2.if god didnt want us to do it, he wouldnt let us do it.lol

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:14 am 
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Madisonli wrote:
damnit dont rip open black hole portals, start making minotaurs and mermaids, i dont think its "playing god" because 1. I dont believe in god really and 2.if god didnt want us to do it, he wouldnt let us do it.lol


I'm not a religious fanactic but in response to number 2.

Supposedly God (matters not which religion) can not interfere with human free will. It's not a matter of what he does let us do or not do. For instance take fundamental christian beliefs (i.e. sin, wrongs against God and fellow mankind). Now bear with me, according to those beliefs there are plenty of things that God doesn't want us to do however God allows us to do them because of the whole "free will" clause. This is more of a philosophy related comeback rather than a religious one. Number 2 statement isn't exactly valid. My favorite philosophical string comes from Ansem's arguement but the one in the "Hitchhiker's Guide" movie was also pretty funny.

When humans get into cloning issues and actually playing with quantum physics it kind of reminds at this present time of probably what medieval people thought of alchemy. Something about all this can make one feel uneasy because of how beyond someone's level of understanding all this is, however how curious should we be in these realms of science and what ethics/morals should we have in them. Also how far is man's limitation in these areas and should we really be so curious as to actually try to find the answer to this? These are questions that delve to many on a personal level, for me, I'm not entirely uneasy of the present experiment, it's the experiment after we "find out" we can recreate black hole's, dark energy, or open other dimensions that picques my concern.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:47 am 
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its more for the sake of progression. If humanity is serious about eventually exploring the galaxy ( thats far off) baby steps are necessary. Yea a project like is kinda wasteful, but who knows what may come of it?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:33 am 
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FUCK ETHICS FUCK GOD I WANT A FUCKING MERMAID

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:29 am 
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If it creates a black hole I hope I die before I have a chance to realize what happened, but this isn't something I'm going to worry about. It should be pretty cool whatever they find.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:39 am 
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Dark Matter is the key to understanding the universe at this point.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:56 am 
DL Hughley
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We don't have to understand the universe. It's endless and endlessness is itself hard to imagine. May as well let it be.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:05 pm 
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DeadLegend wrote:
We don't have to understand the universe. It's endless and endlessness is itself hard to imagine. May as well let it be.


what if it isnt endless? And what if we take a ship and suddenly without an explanation we fall into an endless hole or something?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:11 pm 
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Pretty sure there is entropy, and if there is entropy the universe shouldn't be infinite.

It would be pretty cool if this thing got out of control and sucked some people into a black hole. Would be even cooler if it destroyed the entire world, but I know we wouldn't be that lucky. Will probably be something boring and uneventful and most of us won't even know it happened. Yes, I am saying it would be cool if we all just disappeared into a black hole.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:13 pm 
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It is endless, you just can't imagine it d: and if it isn't then there's something outside (which would kinda extend the endlessness right? lol)

If you fall into an endless hole you'll starve to death or something. haha

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:25 pm 
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DeadLegend wrote:
It is endless, you just can't imagine it d: and if it isn't then there's something outside (which would kinda extend the endlessness right? lol)

If you fall into an endless hole you'll starve to death or something. haha


Isn't that debated? I remember people saying that the universe is ever expanding. But expanding onto what exactly? Everything that we know of has a mass. So basically the entire universe has to have a mass itself and a limitation to itself.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:46 pm 
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I don't know all I can think about now is if it'd be possible to sleep while you're falling down an endlesss hole.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:47 pm 
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DeadLegend wrote:
I don't know all I can think about now is if it'd be possible to sleep while you're falling down an endlesss hole.


My dad did it.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:50 pm 
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Mikey wrote:
DeadLegend wrote:
I don't know all I can think about now is if it'd be possible to sleep while you're falling down an endlesss hole.


My dad did it.

Lucifer? D:

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:03 pm 
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DeadLegend wrote:
Mikey wrote:
DeadLegend wrote:
I don't know all I can think about now is if it'd be possible to sleep while you're falling down an endlesss hole.


My dad did it.

Lucifer? D:


it was an insult towards my conception but ok

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:23 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:23 pm 
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Dark Matter accounts for the majority of matter in the universe (90%) so therefore understanding dark matter is essential. The "size" of the universe is just a small piece of understanding the universe.


Last edited by Ponuh on Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:45 pm 
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Mikey wrote:
DeadLegend wrote:
It is endless, you just can't imagine it d: and if it isn't then there's something outside (which would kinda extend the endlessness right? lol)

If you fall into an endless hole you'll starve to death or something. haha


Isn't that debated? I remember people saying that the universe is ever expanding. But expanding onto what exactly? Everything that we know of has a mass. So basically the entire universe has to have a mass itself and a limitation to itself.



And according to some theories it's just a matter of time until we implode upon ourselves again from the expansion. I think this is an awesome idea...but we all know it's going to unleash demons on the world. Woot Doom 4 coming to YOUR HOUSE in 3D.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:54 pm 
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You all are seriously too bored with yourselves...

Yes, a machine that is absolutely useless in practical terms, however, the scientific findings for future discoveries and applications are fairly big if this experiment is even remotely successful.

Seriously, being able to reproduce a black hole? Man made warp thingy? I mean, WTF?! That would kick ass...

Big bang (or little bang in this experiment) of a mini-universe. Bad ass stuff. This could spawn new forms of energy, new ways of travel, heck, maybe even new materials and all of that stupid scientific jazz.

theoretical science always has to precede the applied sciences anyway, so we should be happy some dope finally figured out how to recreate a black hole.

Bloog... My head is going to pop. Remind me not to drink jager before I come to this forum.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:06 pm 
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Woah, where the hell did "warping devices" come into this? The nature of--in fact, the existance of, black holes is pretty heavily disputed. I think you've been dabbling a bit too much in pop scifi or something because making a black hole doesn't mean making a teleport thing


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