This comes from a man who's avatar states:



Though it has nothing to do with it and is for comical purposes..yea.

Look, people arnt reading what I said and the argument is getting retarded.


God created man. God created earth for man to live on so he can learn right from wrong on his own. Earth accourding to most Christian based religions is more or less a test for man.

God did not choose for me to start playing FFXI. I chose to play FFXI. God knew I would do this all along, that doesnt mean he made me do it.

Who is to say what is and isnt real. I look at myself as a very very factual person. I read space.com livescience.com and all sorts of other science websites because I find science very interesting. I also find it interesting to see how often and how much it changes.

Look back just 200 years ago to what people considered Science. We laugh now, but in 200 years who is to say people wont laugh at us now? People really did at one point in time thing heat was an invisible liquid that could travel from object to object. Seems silly now, but at the time the greatest minds in the world regarded it as fact.

Yeah we have come a long way, but so had they.


So really I see a bunch of people here that dont seem to be educated to both sides of the arugment.

I very much dislike people who bash religion (not that its going on here, i think this is argument has been handled very well actually) when they have almost no clue about what it is they are arguing. Im not saying they know nothing about religion or god. Im saying people come around and bash religion and ones faith when they probably knows very little about science and how quickly the rules of science change once we start looking outside of our little blue marble.

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COBRA KAI DOJO NEVER DIES
RIP Shiloh

Threads like this make me glad I rarely read teh IRL forums. Seriously if you are going to bash something show at least a hint of knowledge about what you are bashing. Arguing about religion on the internet is one of the stupidest things you can do. This thread was flamebait from the beginning.

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Eternus Ifrit Server Atariii LS member
75 BRD with a bunch of subjobs

/agree~

Religion or Politics in forums = flamebait.

Here is where the contradiction that xiona is talking about is:

If God knows you are going to make a certain decision, is there anything in your power you can do to make a different decision?

If you answer Yes, then God was wrong and not omniscient.
If you answer No, then you don't have free will.
And if you don't agree with "If God knows you are going to make a certain decision," then you are saying God is not omniscient.

From that logic, either God is not omniscient or you don't have free will.


----
If
a characteristic of being perfect is having all knowledge
and if God chooses to deny himself some knowledge
then
God is imperfect

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RIP Shiloh - I'll never forget ya

So I apparently I make no sense at all then?

Knowing the outcome doesnt mean you are responsible for it.

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COBRA KAI DOJO NEVER DIES
RIP Shiloh

that one was good, i liked that one

Was my post deleted? Booooo. That was SO relevant.

if youre thinking god knows the outcome but is leaving it up to us to make decisions, how much choice do we really have?

like lets say god knows you are going to drive to Boston tomorrow

can you stay home?

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RIP Shiloh - I'll never forget ya

God is not man. His knowlage works different from everyons. The way I see it is that he knows whats going to happen. He is ALL KNOWING. He knows exactly how this is going to play out. Thats because hes god. The point isnt that he is controlling anyone, just that he knows whats going to happen. We still make our own choices, he just knows whats going to happen.

I really dont want to get into existentialism vs pre-determinism. Personally I think that when people talk of god is he well... god, he knows all. That doesnt mean he forced his way on everything.

We have the choice to do what ever we want. God just already knows what we are going to do. Its like if I saw into the future and I knew talisin would marry Severus, that doesnt mean I forced the actions to happen. It just means I knew what was going to happen. I suppose god could step in and for all we know maybe he has. Still... It's my opinion that god knowing the final outcome of everything does not mean pre-determinism

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COBRA KAI DOJO NEVER DIES
RIP Shiloh

That made me lol

Anyway~ I agree in that I believe god would know what we're going to do but we still have the free will to make our own decisions and he just knows what we're going to do when given our choices we face everyday.

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[In Yarr we trust.]

please have reasons for these kinds of statements

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well he knows whatever you are going to do, thats just how i have always viewed it

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Also my parents didn't stone me to death or sell me to slavery so they're not good christians

um. ok

Ever eat ham? That's a sin.

for jews onry
Know any christians that hate homosexuality? Hey wait, Jesus taught to love your fellow man, would Jesus embrace the frat boys that nearly beat a gay man to death on Franklin Street in Chapel Hill?

while the new testament clearly says homosexuality is a sin (this is another debate, but it is said in the bible in romans), i dont see the point about frat boys beating up a gay man, why would this one guy represent christians (what i think you are implying)

When and why did God switch over from being Vengeful to all merciful? God only flooded the earth for awhile and burned a town to ashes, but hey he'll forgive people no matter what.
read the bible

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who wrote the bible? just curious never knew who did.

most of the books of the bible have the name of the person they were written by. Moses is thought to have written the first 5 books, Paul pretty much most of the apistles, John (not clear if it was Jesus's Desciple or another follower) wrote revelation

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You know what is weird....I actually agreed with Yarr

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Main: War75/Sam63/Blm71/Rng45
Sub: Nin37/Thf37/Whm37/Mnk30
Three nation: Done Zilart: Done CoP: Done

God is love
Love is blind
Ray Charles is god

im following kwechi's religion

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Yarr explained everything I was trying to say but better.

Some dispute whether Paul wrote the letter to the Hebrews. Also, the Psalms were written partially by David and partially by other authors such as musicians and anonymous individuals. Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and the Song of Solomon were written by Solomon. Those are all I can think of off the top of my head.

This thread is Jesus. It rose from the dead without a post for three days.





We cleared this up I thought when Sniffles and myself were beating each other's heads open. I used the Bible as an example because people interepret it differently which causes disagreementss with others (this is the only point I was trying to argue), which Sniffles was very quick to point out that the bible doesn't actually contradict itself. People are just working on different lines of reasoning and understanding which makes this whole clusterfuck a mess. And don't beat a dead horse Tomake. People already took this stuff way too seriously (hi.)

Everything else you need to know about this thread Et and Yarr summed up pretty well.

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Retired 8/21/06
Don't click this link.

From my workshop many weeks ago:



Mikey has to be included in this thread some form or another. I agree with Yarr on the issue.

I may not have strong beliefs. But as i understand religion is based on faith nothing but faith.


So sum it all up to Faith

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Job 10: 20
The mikey's have a plan. Djay isn't all powerful.

another thought that follows from xiona's original post is that, if religion is right, and god is perfect, meaning he is all-knowing, and meaning he is all-powerful, and meaning that all of our actions are in the mind of god's before they are in ours, meaning our decisions are more his than ours,

when i come to the conclusion that there is no god, nothing spiritual at all, if im wrong, he gave me my brain & body, he knows my situation, every event that has happened to me in my life, he couldn't be too upset, and should be very understanding, that i dont believe in him at all, he should just be happy that i live a good moral life and that ive actually thought about existence, as opposed to a lot of people who rarely think about it at all and just accept whatever religion their parents and friends are

but then i remove myself from all the silly "if god exists" statements, because i think he doesn't. it seems more valuable & to the point to contemplate biology chemistry physics and other sciences. they seem to point towards the ever elusive answers to questions about existence more than some old fables from twenty centuries ago. no offense

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RIP Shiloh - I'll never forget ya