Talisin and I were both raised with in a very religous houshold. I have dislike to talk about what I do and don't believe in. I will however say that I have an open mind to just about anything and I will never shoot someone down because of what they believe in. The Bible or The Periodic Table of Elements. Its all the same to me.

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COBRA KAI DOJO NEVER DIES
RIP Shiloh

i guess i shouldnt say its silly. its a valid theory for sure. what keeps me opinionated about religion is the conformity. i just like to see people come up with theories of their own rather than just be handed pre-made theories about existence. i guess its not even that. i believe a lot of stuff i learn in science class that i am just taking on faith, that the scientists discovering the information are legit. i definitely have more faith in scientists than religious leaders, especially the science community as a whole which can review one another.

its a mixture of a lot of things that make me not believe in religion. hmm lets see

1. people tend to follow their local religion, geographically speaking. if you were born in iraq youre most likely just going to be muslim. its easiest that way. but that leads to:
2. there are so many religions, which one is right?
3. if god created everything, what created god? why not just go with the easier assertion that the matter and energy in the universe has always existed
4. what empirical evidence is there for god?
5. i dont really need religion to keep me moral/good
6. i dont trust when anyone makes spiritual claims, they all seem fake and explainable by science. they all have a theme of "i dont know the reason for _____ so i conclude it MUST be something spiritual"
7. souls? what are souls? i dont believe they exist
8. heaven and hell seem fake, like the ideally good and ideally bad places people made up
9. god and satan also seem manmade, with personalities, emotions, sayings, etc.
10. the creation stories in the bible seem madeup, especially how god created day and night before the sun
11. religion is the root of most wars
12. lots of sexual misconduct in churches
13. at the same time religion suppresses sex which is a natural thing
14. religion suppresses cuss words which arent even bad
15. religious people try to fuse religion and government which i dont want
16. religious people seem to be against stem cell research which im strongly for
17. i have had many situations where religious people have been mean to me
18. church is boring
19. people who believe religion also tend to believe stuff from my fake shit list
20. i find religious people often dont even want to talk about theories of existence
21. religious people form cliques and exclude non-religious people unless they are trying to convert them
22. the four gospels have a ton of contradictions
23. i often trace religious motives either back to money, sex, or a greedy desire for a pleasant afterlife
24. almost all religious assertions cannot even be tested to see if theyre wrong or right
25. since before birth was nothingness, it seems the most likely conclusion for after death
26. the universe looks like a lot of wasted space
27. where are heaven and hell anyway?
28. basically all religious concepts are rooted in theology from a time when people didn't know much about anything, and i just dont feel like they are worth believing
29. for instance they call the sky the firmament which means metal plate
30. they thought hell is underground and heaven is visible in the sky
31. jesus was just one of 1000s of people trying to be the "savior" in a time of oppression for the jews
32. what about people born before christianity? did they go to hell?
33. are people living in the jungles of samoa going to hell because they never hear of christianity?
34. pascal's wager, basically stating i would risk eternal damnation for not believing & risk nothing for believing...is wrong because you'd need to believe *every* religion to not risk
35. and every religion is exclusive (except bahai)
36. whenever i listen to preachers or religious people teaching me a lesson it's always something i already know
37. if i needed a lesson i'd enroll in a self-help class or something
38. christianity seems to give this notion that humans are at the center of the universe and can just use the earth and use animals and plants like they are the masters of the universe
39. i just dont see any legit proof of anything spiritual
40. and science just answers everything so much more clearly

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RIP Shiloh - I'll never forget ya

i'll try to find some contradictions

exodus 20:13 "thou shalt not kill"
vs.
1 samuel 6:19 "the people lamented because the Lord had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter"

malachi 3:6 "for i am the Lord; i change not"
vs.
genesis 6:6-7 "it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created"

deut 6:4 "the Lord our God is one Lord"
vs.
genesis 1:26 "God said Let us make man in our image"
or I John 5:7 "there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost"

John 1:18 "no man hath seen God at any time"
vs.
exodus 33:11 "the Lord spake unto Moses face to face"


matthew 19:26 "with God all things are possible"
vs.
judges 1:19 "the Lord was with Judah but He could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley because they had chariots made of iron"

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What women visited Jesus's tomb?
Matthew 28:1 "Mary Magdalene and Mary"
Mark 16:1 "Mary Magdalene, the mother of James, and Salome"
Luke 24:10 "Mary Magdalene, Joanna, the mother of James, and other women"
John 20:1 "Mary Magdalene"

What time did the women visit the tomb?
Matthew 28:1 "as it began to dawn"
Mark 16:2 "very early in the morning"
Luke 24:1 "very early in the morning"
John 20:1 "when it was not yet dark"

Was the tomb open already?
Matthew 28:2 "no"
Mark 16:4, Luke 24:2, John 20:1 "yes"

Who was at the tomb already?
Matthew 28:2-7 "one angel"
Mark 16:5 "one young man"
Luke 24:4 "two men"
John 20:12 "two angels"

After the women, to whom did Jesus first appear?
Matthew 28:16 "eleven disciples"
Mark 16:12 "two disciples"
Luke 24:13 "two disciples"
John 20:19 "ten disciples"

How long did Jesus remain on Earth after the resurrection?
Mark 16:19 one day
Luke 24:50 one day
John 20:26, 21:1-22 eighty days
Acts 1:3 forty days


ok thats just a few examples

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RIP Shiloh - I'll never forget ya

lol @ this thread.

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Retired 8/21/06
Don't click this link.

Cosmological argument and anthropic principle.

I could do the rest, if you want to get into it. I have "A Harmony of the Gospels" right on the shelf beside me

Did anyone just read what i said..

LOL

FAITH...
Thats the only thing.

THis is coming for the guy who isn't religious...

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Job 10: 20
The mikey's have a plan. Djay isn't all powerful.

You have alot more faith than I. Scientists are as falable if not more so, and currently have an extremely limited understanding of the Universe. Perhaps after a few more millenium of trial and error the human race will have a better understanding of the Universe. Either that or we'll all be dead and it will be moot.

i cant say how much i appriciate getting some other peoples stand point on this. even though some people thought i was attempting to start a flame war, i was just hoping that we would be able to be civilized and talk about something thats very taboo. i am pleased

think about it, religion has been a soft spot and fueled so many wars for the sake of "whos right"... and the fact that we as individuals, some who dont believe and others who strongly believe, can come together and at the very least share some insight with one another is a huge step in the right direction. if the world could follow the example of forum threads like this and at least be able to respect each others views no matter what they are and dicuss why they feel that way we'd be one step closer to unification.

if everyone was truely religously tolerant, then most of our fights and wars would never exsist. sometimes i feel like when people argue about who is right when it comes to religon its like a group of virgins arguing what a pussy/dick feels like for the first time. after all the fighting we're still virgins and never know until it happens.

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75WHM / 37SMN / 61BLM / 37RDM / 70BRD / 75NIN / 75RNG / 56THF / 37WAR / 37DRG http://www.myspace.com/dan_wyld

MIKEY is so right he knows everything!
but yeah it is all about faith

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"Thou shall not kill" is mistranslated. Proper translations read: "Thou shall not murder."

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If only you all had a large Proton-Enhanced Nuclear Induction Spectroscopy machine like I do.

Sorry, haven't read this thread since I posted this heh. I didn't think I had to post examples, thought it was pretty common kowledge. Just refer to Whisp's post for some examples.

or just search for "biblical contradictions" I'm sure you'll find alot of info.

Yeah, people do it all the time thinking it makes them look smart. It's fun shooting them out of the water like the folks at apologeticspress.com do

Are you basically saying you can't think a reason to hate religion by yourself and let other people convince you? If you want to make attack, you should base your opinion on evidence you can explain, not what you read on the net.






Bible is wrote by men, not God. I don't see how you can take a man's interpretation and compare it to what is suposed to be a direct message from God.

You could also explain that by saying different autority level have different privilege.

Samuel's book basically tell you life an be shitty, but God will always reward you in the end if you can keep your faith. You don't have to take it literally, like the rest of the old Testament.






Eh, read the book again. In Mark and Luke, Jesus appeared to 2 disciples alone before apearing to the apostles who were hiding in a room. Matthew and John just skipped that part.

Difference like that are insignifiant. All those book were wrote + or - 30 years after Jesus's death by different people. You can't expect story details to be exactly the same.

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Main: War75/Sam63/Blm71/Rng45
Sub: Nin37/Thf37/Whm37/Mnk30
Three nation: Done Zilart: Done CoP: Done

thats kind of the point, that the bible was written by fallible human beings

the people who wrote the books of the bible, we dont know what they were like, what their motives were, if they were telling the truth, if they were exaggerating, and there is no way to know

like mikey said religion is based on faith. but why bother having faith in religion? i dont see the point other than wishful thinking

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RIP Shiloh - I'll never forget ya

Well, we have atheists and christians/catholics (i forget the difference, and i'm sorry) all ready to go right for eachother's throats.. this is how religious wars and jihads get started. Xiona I applaud your curiosity and interest in this matter as well as your attempt at making a thought provoking thread, but it seems when it comes to religion people see in black and white. the christians are not willing to accept any kind of fallicies, hypocrasies, and/or inconsistencies you find in their religion and bible, just as their attempts to prove to you that God is perfect and all knowing and you questioning that is sacreligious and wrong isn't going to stop you from thinking it and questioning it. As mikey said ultimately it comes down to faith, we should all be able to believe in whatever we wish to believe in and not have to come under any kind of scrutiny or attack for those beliefs. SHOULD, unfortunately, it seems ppl w/ opposing viepoints (just in this thread alone) can't even conduct a civil conversation among one another. So this is just one of those things where we'll have to agree to disagree and leave it at that. No one's trying to see the other side of the story. No one WANTS to.. and, really what's the point, we have no facts and no real truth, it's ppl arguing opinions and no one will ever be "right".

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nobody is at each others throats

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RIP Shiloh - I'll never forget ya

hrmm maybe... just seems like a lot of folks are getting defensive and taking little pot shots at eachother.. this sense of people trying to "one-up" the person above them feels really prevelant to me.. but maybe it's just me i dunno.

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No, I'm saying I thought everyone was aware the bible is full of contradictions. I haven't studied the bible much myself, but whenever I open up the bible I find something odd that makes me think, wow. For example, the other day I was looking in one and I turned to some random page that talked about sacrificing your first child to appease the lord or something like that. Hmmm...thou shalt not kill...sacrificing babies in god's name...yeah.

The bible is full of crazy stuff that no one ever talks about. Preachers and most Christians just pick and choose which parts to believe and which parts to ignore. I'd venture to say that there are virtually no pure Christians anymore because following the bible in every aspect would be a harmful way to live.

meh i'm with you thunder, you kinda sound like an agnostic (which I consider myself to be). I believe there is "something" but I'm not sure what, and I feel more comfortable drawing my own conclusions and establishing practices of worship that appeal to me and my own sense of spirituality. Likewise, I've studied many religions, was raised catholic, then followed buddhism and wikka for bit when I was a teenager, then a few years later became interested in judaism. But all those "institutional" pre-packaged religions seemed to contain too much hipocrisy for me to blindly conform to. Even w/o scriptural quotes, just the notion that god will punish you for taking the wrong actions, but that he is an all-loving god and will forgive you is questionable, and that's pretty much the basis of all structuredized religions.

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The killing of the first born was a test God gave to Moses to see how obedient he was (testing him to see whether Moses was fit to lead). In no way was this a commandment of God to everyone, this was an specific incident which was told to make a point. God also stopped Moses from killing Isaac at the altar and explained the reason why he would test Moses like this. I am pretty sure this was about Moses lol.... could be mistaken though since I do not read the Bible much recently. This is old testament scripture, which is usually not taken literally anyway.

Almost all of the quotes from the Bible I have seen here are out of context in that it is once sentence and not the entire paragraph/verse/whatever. To get the true context of this stuff you would need to read the entire chapter practically, which is something most people aren't willing to do. I could easily quote one sentence or phrase you wrote in a post and use it against you. This is quite common and is what most of what I see when people argue the Bible.

I am not saying there aren't contridicting parts in the Bible. God has admitted to making a mistake after he flooded the world and said he would never flood the earth again. I don't care enough to put forth the effort to look all that crap up at the moment either.

Oh yeah and God wouldn't have to follow his own rules. Since he would be the all powerful creator of the universe he would be able to do whatever the fuck he wants and at the same time make rules that he would not have to follow anyway. What God wants to do doesn't have to be "fair", it is in essence his universe so if you don't like what he does then tough shit.

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Eternus Ifrit Server Atariii LS member
75 BRD with a bunch of subjobs

Yeah I guess I would consider myself agnostic. Religion is such a non-factor in my life that I don't really think about it much anymore. I grew up in a non-religious household, never once attending a church with my family. Now that I'm older I appreciate my parents for never forcing anything upon me as a child.

I think the world would be a much more tolerant place if people did not force their religious views upon children, who are basically brainwashed because at a young age they believe everything adults tell them. Most children are taught about Santa, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, and Jesus. All quasi-magical beings that are unseen but nontheless supposed to be real. Eventually kids learn the truth about Santa, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy, and yet they continue to believe in Jesus. Odd. I say let people figure things out for themselves. Once children reach a certain age where they can understand, parents should show them all the possibilities. Try to nurture openminded-ness. That's how I'd raise a child.

Anyways my views can be summed up in about couple sentences: We'll find out for sure when we die, not a minute sooner. Don't waste too much time thinking about it. That's my bible.

Child sacrifice was done by the Philistines in the name of Ba'al.

what happened to if its okay to kill people thing?

and my avatar is so freakin funny, don't even try to hate on the evil motto


and sacrificing ones child was done a few times in the bible..

also one pt to add, god made us in his image, every fault we have we got from him, just because your omnipotent doesn't mean you don't make mistakes, just means you know your gonna make that mistake.


by virtue, people wrote the bible, thats meas its flaw because people wrote it, don't put all your eggs in one basket.

Spoken by the coolest priest i ever met in my 22 yrs of catholic grammar school/highschool/ and college:

The bible is the greatest story ever told, take it for what it is, a great story. Keep the lessons it teaches you in your life, and you will have a fulfilling life. Thats the only thing you have to remember.



Stop dissecting my favorite story biotches!

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Warlock's are not OP, maybe if you stopped running around like frightened little girls you'd be able to beat me...