yeah that does suck alot
i'm with you on this, since teaching is kind of what i want to do as well.
i guess i'll just get two degrees
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| Author: | arlania [ Wed Mar 16, 2005 7:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Such fucking bullshit. |
Why to teach in this country do you need a degree in education and not a degree in the subject you want to teach? This is fucking stupid. If I get a degree in English... a masters im talking about, I cant teach. Yet if I get a bachleors in education I can teach? Wouldnt a masters show I was more suited?! If I teach english in fucking high school... wouldnt having a masters... IN THAT SUBJECT be better then having a degree in a variety of subjects? I mean to teach is not that hard. Im doing it right now. Its not complicated. I want to fucking teach english in high school but I dont want to fucking go for a degree in Education. Thats ridiculous. With an associates in multimedia right now I could teach K-8 at least! AT LEAST!. |
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| Author: | Ponuh [ Wed Mar 16, 2005 7:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
because the teacher's degree teaches you to make your smoke breaks quick and in the teacher's lounge |
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| Author: | fallenseraph [ Wed Mar 16, 2005 7:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Blame the government. It's easier that way. In seriousness though it's is bullshit that when you're over qualified for something you aren't given the opportunity to achieve. |
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| Author: | arlania [ Wed Mar 16, 2005 7:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Its amazingly fucking dense and im pissed right now. Does anyone know how the school systems work in Europe and Canada ( I know quite a few of you live there). Is it any different? Its amazing really. By amazing I mean completely fucking stupid. |
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| Author: | Shadowstalker [ Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Well- An education degree is a little bit more than just a little certificate that says you can teach in such and such state. As far as I understand, degrees in education focus on things like education theory, teaching strategies, child or adolescent psychology and things along that line. Just because a person has a masters in a particular subject doesn't mean they're qualified to instruct elementary or secondary education, because it's a bit more than just spewing out information for students to copy into their notebooks, (this is why I hate large classes, lecture halls, shit like that- it's not a good way of teaching.) Also if I'm not mistaken, most education degrees have a point of focus. Music education, physical education, social sciences education, etc. So, it's not like people are teaching blindly in a subject. Teachers have their base salary and positions judged by their education as well. Typically, (at least in my school district,) teachers who went back and took masters classes in their field received a pay raise when they earned their degree. Why? Because they have even more qualifications, and it's something that isn't ignored when a school board is making a decision to hire new teachers. It's really difficult to place a teacher in a position when you consider the most crucial learning stages of a child. Would you put a very well qualfied teacher in a kindergarten or first grade class because age 5-7 is one of the more crucial stages of learning (spatial reasoning, creative thinking etc.) or based on the idea of a set cirriculum mandated by school boards, could you just stick anyone with an associates in elementary education in a kindergarten class and expect the same results? It's bs to some extent, and I think it reflects on our current generation when most students can barely spell and can barely speak properly. However, due to limited funding by state legislatures and even less by the federal government, teachers educate their students with out of date textbooks, (My high school bought text books every 7 years,) and teachers become apathetic because they feel they're overworked. Back on topic, the mastery of a particular subject doesn't make you more qualified to teach if you don't possess the ability to communicate the information to your audience, (children.) Oh. Teaching in Canada- http://www.ctf-fce.ca/en/teaching/teaching.htm#r I tried looking for some european information, but I couldn't find anything, heh. |
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| Author: | Karta [ Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
AFAIK in canada you have to go to teachers college, which is basically getting your bachelors in education, I guess. most of my teachers went to university for their subjets and teaching college after they were done that. |
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| Author: | arlania [ Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I would say a minor in education theory would be all you need. I mean I didnt take a single class on teaching and im a pretty damn good teacher. I mean I think some of it is common sense really. Most people know how to teach just most dont want to teach because people annoy them. I mean you teach people everyday sometimes. |
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| Author: | Shadowstalker [ Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
What exactly about 6 years of critical thinking, reading and writing/editing papers makes a person more qualified to teach? With the exception of studying formulas, (math and sciences,) most of life is common sense. |
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| Author: | Mys [ Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Shadowstalker wrote: What exactly about 6 years of critical thinking, reading and writing/editing papers makes a person more qualified to teach?
Those 6 years will finely tune your BS-ing skills so you can make up lesson plans the on same day as your class, of course. |
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| Author: | Shadowstalker [ Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Or you can just plan the same s hit every day every year like I've seen some teachers do. ;p |
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| Author: | arlania [ Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
What will 6yrs of an English degree teach me that I dont know? Probably about english and the finer mechanics of it. Teaching is more of a gift then it is a learnt thing. You can tell anyone how to teach but unless they have a talent for it they arnt going to succeed. Ive always viewed school as a way to build on the things that interest me (english, philo, psych, multimedia). I dont enjoy being told that I cant teach with an English master's because I didnt take a course on learning disabilities or something else. I mean im sure the education degree provides insights that I need. I just dont think it would take 6yrs of my life to learn all that. |
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| Author: | Mys [ Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
silly question here but... Why not just major in Education? |
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| Author: | Shadowstalker [ Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Arlania wrote: What will 6yrs of an English degree teach me that I dont know? Probably about english and the finer mechanics of it.
Are you honestly going to apply the finer points of rhetoric and composition in a high school course? There's a difference between your own pursuit of education and a students. There are things that high schools don't, (and probably shouldn't) touch in graduate classes. If you want to teach in a university you need a masters degree anyway, heh. I'm not trying to argue, education is a big issue for me. (going for music education myself,) I completely understand your frustration with this issue, and I thought about it a lot when I was in school, underqualified teachers etc. Unfortunately, I can't think of anything to really amend the situation, either. |
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| Author: | Mintsy [ Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
yeah that does suck alot
i'm with you on this, since teaching is kind of what i want to do as well. i guess i'll just get two degrees
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| Author: | Shadowstalker [ Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
If I had the option I'd probably stay in school forever haha |
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| Author: | Nephrenia [ Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Because knowing a lot about a subject doesn't automatically impart to you the inherent ability to educate others in that subject. How many professors have you had where you've said to yourself, "Boy he/she sure is smart/talented but he/she can't teach worth a damn!". I guarantee you that if there were as many people running around with Phds as there are with bachelor's then universities would start to require professors to have at least a minor in education. Don't presume that just because you're a pretty bright guy that you're inherently qualified to spend a career influencing the minds, emotions, interests and career choices of thousands of young kids. Saying that teaching is mostly a natural gift is pretty arrogant. Consider the following: There are a lot of excellent writers out there that never had any sort of fancy-schmancy degree in English. Guess you wasted 5 years of your life in a useless program. Or maybe we should just test people to see if they're gifted at English, and then let them go teacher's college for 2 years and start teaching, why bother teaching English to someone? It's a gift, either you have it or you don't. Sarcasam off... You may also want to re-examine requirements for obtaining degrees in education, I think you will find it does not take a full 6 years to do so if you have a previous degree. Here in Canada, you are required to obtain a degree, prove that you have at least TWO teachable subjects on top of that, and then attend teachers college for two years afterwards. Total time: About 6 years if you don't lollygag. And no, I'm not an educator myself. But I've learned to appreciate them. |
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| Author: | Mintsy [ Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Shadowstalker wrote: If I had the option I'd probably stay in school forever haha
haha ditto! |
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| Author: | Orignal [ Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I'm going to be very honest here. Most people have no idea how hard it is to be a GOOD teacher. Sure you could half-way it with a degree in a particular field, but there are many things you can learn about teaching that have nothing to do with a content area. I would have to echo the sentiments of a previous poster that just because you have a good amount of knowledge in a particular field does not necessarily mean that you would make a good teacher. I also had professors (and for sure TA's) who knew more than I ever would about a field, but were horrible teachers. That being said, I think there is some truth to having a natural talent to teach. However, that doesn't necessarily mean teacher training has no value. Compare it to a person who is a naturally gifted athlete. Just because they have natural talent doesn't mean they don't practice and aren't coached to make themselves BETTER. Also there are many things you have to deal with as a teacher that you can only learn from other teachers or by personal experience. Any good teacher training program will have both of these components. What is knowledge about English going to tell you about how to run a classroom, learning styles, or classroom discipline? Teaching is much more than knowledge in a content area, although that is important too. |
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