ok this will be a long story, and i know that these "love" threads or whatever are uber lame, but this has kinda been interfering with my life, and until i'm able to rationalize it, it's going to kill me.

I have this "friend" and i use the term loosely because while she considers me her best friend and "brother" i've always considered her the love of my life. To know our "relationship" is to go back 10 years.

High school, i walk into my 10th grade gym class (which was integrated with freshman [9th graders]) and it was like that cliche' bullshit where all you see is "that person" and they have a glow, and time seems to slow down. so i did everything in my power to try and get in her class, and i did, and on her team in most shit (ironically) and i started to get this sense.. that maybe there was something cosmic about our meeting.

So i find out all these things about her, from running into her in the woods behind school where all the deviants would go to smoke cigarettes in between classes. and there were crazy coincidences.. our birthdays were 1 week apart June 7th and June 14th, we were both gemini, i lived at 31 ave a, she lived at 32 n. maryland ave, our phone numbers were 1 digit apart: 767-7155 and 767-7159, we both had 2 cats, neither of us had a male sibling, both hated our fathers, both smoked camel lights, she lived in the apt. that my uncle used to rent when i was a child, and i remembered being there when i first went there to hang out.

so of course, i fell horribly, ridiculously, madly in love with this girl (and if you knew her like i do, you prolly would too) so i courted her hardcore, of course i had never really liked a girl like this before and never had a girlfriend (never even kissed a girl actually) and i had no idea wtf i was doing. but i just treated her like such a lady, and showered her wih all kinds of creative gifts (mix tapes, drawings, love poems, etc.)

Around this same time i was kind of getting away from the trendy gangster rap image that i had adopted in 7-8th grade and was dressing more grunge and listening to a lot of classic rock and alternative. I had also made a few new friends and was systematically removing all the thugs from my life. One of which i grew an instant bond with and after awhile of getting close considered to be "a best friend". Well Maio, had started to reject my advances, and wouldn't come to my house alone, and things of that nature. I started to think something was up.

D-day, i had been hanging out with Alex (the new best friend), Maio, and this kid Conrad, the 4 of us had formed a little clique, and would hang out often.. get drunk and smoke weed and typical high school stuff. So we were all sitting at this deli on the corner of my block and Conrad had left and it was raining and I think either Maio or Alex were waiting there to get picked up byone of their parents. And it suddenly became clearto me that there was this closeness about them that i had never realized before. When i had asked if they were dating, they said yes and i was crushed.

I had never known hurt, sadness, anger, pain like this, and it killed me, i was suicidal, i would constantly burn and cut myself. I wrote nothign but depressing poetry and manic drawings of these sad crying angels (which later developed into the novel i'm working on now) and i don't think i spoke to anyone for a few weeks. I have never known my emotions to be as intense ever before or ever since.

But we held on (Maio and I) I never (still to this day) ever spoke to Alex again really, maybe like some bullshit small talk if we saw eachotehr, but he would never be "my friend" again. maio and I (now that she had a man, felt less threatened about coming over solo, cuz she knew i would always treat her like a lady and wouldn't make a move unless she authorized it) would always hang out and get fucked up and talk, and I felt so close to her.. we just "got" eachother. But of course I was still so love sick over her, so it would come up A LOT and she would find a way to ignore it and still have a good time.

Alo of tragic things happened in both our lives around this time, i lost both my grandfathers, my 24yr old cousin hung himself, my dad started using heroin and went to jail for robbing some machine from a bar. And we were there for eachother, and she comforted me in a way that i still to this day have not felt from another human. all the while we still kept it plutonic somehow, and herand alex weredone (for the first of many, many times).

Now this pattern started emerging Maio and I would hang, get super close, I would fall in love with her, she would either get a new boyfriend or we would fight and stop talking. I went through a lot to try and "fix" myself and get over her.. and eventually the only thing that worked was anger and distance... so after like the 10th time this happened and a few years after our intial meeting. I wrote heran 8 page letter basically telling her how much i loved her, and how much it hurt me that she didn't love me back, and how frustrated i was when i was around her, wanting to take this amazing connection with her and apply it to something tangible. (as a footnote she claimed to never have received this letter)

3 years went by and I did my best to really forget, I had other relationships, moved out of state, moved back to state, started working full time. And then my father died. And for the first time in about 3 years I saw her again, and she was still gorgeous. She came and spent a dayor 2 with me, and we reconnected, and it was like the day before could've been the last time we saw eachother. reagrdless of all the crazy shit that happened in those 3 years.. hergoing to jail, going into psychiatric care, attempting suicide, living with some guy and finding out he banged hookers on the side, and THEN he stalked her and she had to get a restraining order.. both my grandmothers had died, my mom had a stroke, my sister was living with a physically abusive man. etc

And I think something was different about this time, because i had shoved those romantic feelings down so far, and because i needed maio, for support, to remind me of the good times, and who i was. and we were "just friends" for the first time ever and it was good, we were able to still hang all over eachother and comfort one another and sleep together and there wasn't that same awkwardness of me looking at her and then all of a sudden giving her the "fuck me eyes". But our friendship was short-lived, both of us had our own shit going on and lived way far away from eachother and i don't even think i had my license at the time. I also started dating the lovely Ms. Jaclyn Green at this time who became my full spare-time interest.

Another couple years go by, Jaclyn and I are on the outs, and I get a call from maio inviting me to her graduation party at her boyfriends house.. so i go, and it's good times, i wind up exchanging contact info with her friend justine in the hopes of her maybe getting me a job at her father's advertising agency. Justine and I get talking, and being that Justine is close with Maio.. maio and I start getting close again. Well we got really close , to the point where it was almost like "Justine Who?" we were sneaking around and secretly (justine hada crush and felt threatened by maio) meeting up and having good times.

One time in particular that rings out in my mind was us sitting at the docks by her hosue, and it was freezing but we had to stay and talk.. we wound up hysterically bawling in eachotehrs arms and telling eachotehr how much we needed and loved and appreciated eachother..It was one of the most beautiful magickal nights of my life. We went back to my hosue, got more fucked up, and passed out together. (there was still not even a first kiss between us, again, i wasn't going to do anything w/o permission)

So fast forwarda few months, maio and I keep chilling as "friends onry" and it ain't no thang. Then I kind of started to lose my mind a little, i dated this ultra conservative girl because in my head it seemed like the "right" thing to do.. that she just fit in so perfectly with this nice middle-class, white-collar life i had made for myself. But i came to realize that I had totally lost touch with myself.. that i hated how boring i was, and how boring she was, and i broke up with her, and played ffxi for 3 months straight, and didn't communicate with any of my rl friends.. it was indeed and intense (much needed) escape from everything up until that moment.

So a few weeks ago, after kind of coming out of my ffxi cocoun, i went to go see her and our mutual friend Chris who was up visiting from NC. we had an amazing time.. and I was just going.. holy shit,. i haven't smiled or had a great time like this since.. i can't remember when. we went back to Maio's bar and got hammered and sang cheesy old 80's songs at the top of our lungs.. then we went back to her place.. and went to bed.. we held eachotehr soooo tight, and told eachotehr how much we missed eachotehr and loved eachother and how happy we were now that we got to see eachother.

She had told me that she had been having problems sleeping, nightmares and the like. That night when i dreamt it was like her and i together.. you know you dream in first person, and you experience things by yourself, you migth see someone you know.. but overall you're alone. This was herand I together.. all night. I woke up and she was there.. looking so gorgeous, I asked her if she had any nightmares or trouble sleeping. she said no, thanked me and kiss my head.. we hugged super tight for awhile and once again said I love you.. and i headed to work.

There was a whisper in my mind.. when i started to driveto work, and by the time i had gone to bed that night, the whisper was a scream.. recounting all the amazing times we had, and how much we've been there and how well we know eachother and can comfort eachother.. and it just seemed like we were soul mates destined to be there for eachother always. I became super restless iw as fighting myself as hard as i could.. fighting back these emotions that my heart was running me over with. It was undeniable.

So, of course, stupid me, can't lie to the person who knows me better than anyone else on the planet, and I tell her what I'm going through, and the results were unsavory. in my head, i feel like I'm going to lose her either way; Either I forget about what she means to me, move on and date other people, hoping to find someone like her one day, then i don't even know if my interest in me and maio's "friendship" will even still be there. or we take a plunge, throw caution to the wind, possibly ruin the fantasy, and realize it really is just all wrong in reality. but we know.. and we never have to move on w/o ever knowing what it was like.. such a deep intense love.. finally pushed that next step.

in my head, I can't see how we can hold eachother so close, and have this deep admiration, adoration, love, knowledge and respect for eachother, and still think that, there is someone MORE deserving of our love out there than eachother? I've worked hard to get to where i am, and I have a lot to show for myself, and I am almost insulted by who she has choosen to be with.. whilst still continuing to reject me (possibly one of the best opportunities that's come around for her in years). And when i remind her of all this, and tell her all this, she ignore it fully.. pretends to be sleeping, pretends to betoo drunk to think about it, pretends that soemthing on the TV is far more interesting...

I want closure, i want to be able to move on, as hard as it is, w/o knowing what it was like to have that type of relationship with maio, to some how see past all the fantasies i have about our kids and our first kiss and all the amazement, joy, excitement, and wonder she brings into my life. How could it never cross her mind, how could she never realize who i am to her; her gemini twin, her soul mate.

So tell me what you guys think, I need to know how people can shareso much emotion, go thorugh so much together, mean so much to eachother, and then not want to spend the rest of your lives together, please tell me, because it's fucking killing me y'all.

Wow. That was an amazing post.

It sounds to me like she (and you to some extent) is scared to "ruin the fantasy." I have been in simalar situations but I doubt that I have ever felt what you are feeling right now. I wish I could just give you an answer and make you feel better but I, honestly, wouldn't know how to handle that situation myself. All I can say is let things happen. Don't try to force things, either good or bad, to happen. Just let it happen! It may be time for you to move on; I know it's easy to say but almost impossible to do but that could be the best thing for you.

She obviously realizes how you feel so just take a step back and let her think. (Maybe she will realize that you really are the man of her dreams)

On another note, that drawing is fucking awesome!

You are the man Matti, thanks for taking the time to read and reply (and the compliment about the drawing) I definitely think that it's fear driven.. maio, is kind of a screwball (think Clementine in Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind) and has dealt with a lot of things in her life, one of which being the loss of her best friend who shot himself before i met her, and the other being her deadbeat dad who was never around, and basically just caused a lot of heartache and debt for her, her mother and her sisters. She now really just sees dating as a joke, and dates people for fun, people she doesn't need to get attached to and have this deep emotional thing with. I too am afraid of the reality being completely terrible compared to the fantasy, but I am more afraid of the thought of losing her (which as i stated above seems inevitable) and I think a part of me hangs onto that notion of us getting married and settling down, because i feel like that's the only way her and i can be together always and be free of the awkwardness and uncertainty and emotional bullshit we're always hurling at eachother. i want to move on, but i feel like to truly move on i need a really good reason why, so that my curiosity is finally quelled and i can accept that we will never go down that road.

This may not have much to do with anything but how old are you and Maio?

Maybe that's it; she's scared of these intense emotions that you both feel for each other. I'm sure that if I felt as deeply as you descibe I would be so damn scared to ruin everything that I would more than likely let it pass by...

i'm 25 and she's 24, but our birthday's are coming up!

wow, that is pretty deep stuff in there, and imo if you do not take a chance you'll never know what you could have with her.

However, like you said if it goes bad you could loose a friend finding out. So to you what is more important, having this best friend or finding out if you have a future with her..

I am 25 and have been married for a year, so i do not think this has anything to do with your age.

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Yeah I think thats an awesome post too. Closer is a tough thing to get. Hanging up emotions when you dont want to is also really hard to do also. Trust me, up until a few days ago, I was struggling too. I still do, but I found my closer.

So how do you find closer? First of all, stop thinking she has to give it to you. Honestly, she cant. You are the only person who can fix this.

You have to stop thinking that shes the one whos going to say "what it is you need to hear." Because lets face it, anything she says youre going to find away to think she ment something else.

I found my closer when I started to see things more clearly. That things arnt over for me. That there are other girls out there who are actually better. I cant say I found someone whos a really good match for me, I found some people I think are fun and could pass some time ;p but, I havent found the one whos my perfect match. I use to think princess was my perfect match, but, lets face it, if she was, I wouldnt be sitting here having this conversation.

I guess.

I dont know, closer, its something you have to just figure out in your own head and in your own way. I found mine, well, with a little help I did, but im sure youll find yours.

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COBRA KAI DOJO NEVER DIES
RIP Shiloh

but taking a chance means what? she's the one who needs to want to take that chance. I've been trying to get with her since the first day we met LOL, for me sacraficing the friendship doesn't really matter because i feel like, in the end if the only thing i can ever have with her is that, then it will be riddled with these negative feelings on my part, for her never willing to give me/us that chance.

I try to understand her feelings as much as I can, but being a guy, I've just never been in that situation before. I've never had someone i cared about so much and was able to be fully affectionate with (aside from sexual stuff) while either being physically grossed out by the person or them just always being too much of "the friend", even in situations like that where i was turned off by the person, i still almost always gaveit a try.. cuz you never know.

and i've seen some of the dudesshe's dated recently, and i don't think it's a physical attracion thing, I just don't see how she could hang onto this notion that by somehow not ever giving us a chance at romance.. it will some how keep us even closer til the end of time. Can't she see that if i give up on her and what she means to me (which i would have to do if i ever wanted to have a chance at really moving on) that our "relationship" would crumble anyway?

amazing insight in here, you're right, anything she'd say, i would just obsess over and be like.. nah she was prolly just afraid and said it, when she really feels the opposite, and from past experiences of feeling like i needed a particular person to give me closure, i never have found it in them (but then that's probably why the thought of all my exes still feels like a red hot soldering iron in my eye). Basically right now i'm in the process of semi-filling this journal/sketchbook i bought for her, it's going to have photos, writing, letters, art, and i even made 2 cds that i inserted into the fron inside coverof the book, one is sad the other is happy, and they're named after our favorite seasons: spring and fall. i am making and giving this to her as a sort of parting present, because i feel like, it's pretty obvious i'm never going to get any where and i have to move on. This book is so she never forgets me and the way we once were...

and i will be taking scans of the pages and posting them on my website, i'll keep all those interested updated about it once i have more stuff done and beging to scan it all in.

I offer the following solutions but whether you like em or not is up to you.

1. Girls hate guy friends that fall in love with them, they always have, they always will - soooooo, end it and find a girl and keep looking. I'm sure this is way easier said than done but, you're gonna keep torturing yourself if you continue on with this.

2. Be a fucking man - this is one of those things that many guys forget after they've known a girl for a long time. They lose touch with themselves...so one night when you guys are fucked up or something go for the "real" kiss and do what comes naturally, don't even pause and ask her if it "feels weird" (you wouldn't ask another girl this question, what makes her so special?). Besides, if "you" pause and ask if it feels weird then it obviously "feels weird" to "you" since "you" were the first to pause. You can blame your shunned reactions on the booze should you be denied or blame your granted reactions on the booze should you be allowed access and it feels weird, or send your grattitude to the fucking booze should everything pan out ok.

3. Psychology - I'm sure by now she knows how you feel (hell she's probably always known), so ask her "what the fuck." Does she just expect you to hang around and watch her date others, grow old, eventually get married while you do the same bullshit the whole time convinced that only she's the right one. Limit the closeness if you two aren't gonna take it farther, it's as unhealthy as having a wife you sleep with every night and share your most intimiate thoughts with enter a swinging lifestyle that you're not invited on. Sometimes certain people need to be reminded of the gifts you are giving them, I just about guarantee you if you find another girl and go nuts in love over another girl and refuse to share the same intimacy with your "friend" you will be giving her your souled-out shoes and showing her how you feel now. I can just about also guarantee this is when this girl always sorta takes an interest in you, you're her possession if this is the case, and no girl will ever have you, despite innocence, demons are at work all the time. I've had several friends with issues similar to yours and I always ask them if they really want to be that "dick-in-a-glass case." And I've seldom heard a story similar to yours pan-out into anything more than mind-fucks. Sooo my solution is simple, break it off or go for it, there is no gray area with this one man. By the way "Be a fucking man" and don't even get into a conversation about it or else it will fuck you both up more, talking rarely, if ever, solves this scenario at all. You may be totatlly convinced there is but there isn't. If she really is your friend.....see how much of a friend she is when you make her sleep on the couch in your house (I'm an ass and I treat friend girls the same way I treat my friend guys, why the fuck would I give my bed to a guy friend?? I treat friend-girls the same way, and they're cool with it because that's my personality.). Break off the intimacy that really you should only share with those that are interested and share intimacy back and you'll be a happier, healthier individual for it. If you ever think you'll always wonder if she's the perfect one and are such a fatalist then take into consideration that as life goes on, if she really was the perfect one, then she'd be there with you!

Anyone else with a life problem that needs solving, I tell you ppl what they don't want yet need to hear, soooooo who's next?

yep, it seems like the majority of people ive talked to believe it's totally one sided and i'm prety much letting myself be her bitch, so i give her the gift, and tell her to go fuck herself sideways, then i work on my body , get hott, and fuck all her friends. done and done. thanks a bunch guys

Another great post by Supafly.
It amazes me that in an online game there are so many inteligent people who can think this deep...

I was just about to give a girls point of view on this, and I was going to say the same thing.
And its very very true!
I think girls have a pretty crappy deal when it comes to most friendships. or at least from my experience. I dont have many girlfriends that I can relate to and feel comfortable around. and for some reason, many girls feel like when they have a boyfriend, they must end all of their friendships and only hang out with their boyfriend's friends.
So many of my girl friends have had an in and out cycle my whole life.

I grew up with the geek lifestyle, my brothers played video games with me and eventually it branched out all over. consoles, pc, table top, ccgs, mmos, larp, you name and i've probably enjoyed it :D
I think it goes without saying that these hobbies are mostly male dominated.
and often I found myself forming friendships with gamers guys. you know.. people to play games with and nothing more.
They always seemed like the best friends, you know? We would hang out and go to movies and play the newest games together.
And I really felt like these people cared about me as a real friend.

I'm still very much hurt today that they really didnt care about me as a friend. They always wanted more. and it never stopped hurting me. that no matter how intelligent, smart, and "cool" I was, that I would never be thought of as just "one of the guys." that they just played "friend" in hopes of more.

its really a painful thing to go through again and again.
and after while you learn to ignore the advances. because if you ignore, if you pretend that its a real friendship, than you get to keep living the lie. you get to keep having people around that you like.
but its a really hard and painful thing. and it hurt me so much to know that i would probably never be able to have "real" friendships.

so thats why i play ffxi now. i'm a pixel person and you cant fall in love with pixels.

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The lovers, the dreamers, and me.

1. guys hormones are telling them to fuck everything in sight 24 hours a day, pixel or not, i've seen just as many people have crushes on folks they met in ffxi as in rl.

2. ok i understand and it pulls at my heart strings that you can't find awesome guys that just want to be your friend and nothing else, BUT where/why is that distinction made? if these people are awesome and you can do everything you enjoy with them, then why aren't they on your top list of people you want to be with? Why do the nice awesome guys, who will treat you like gold and truly love you for you get shafted at the chance of having something really awesome, while the hot unobtainable assholes are the ones you persue in the hopes of finding true love, do you see how contradictory that is? Do you see how a guy is kind of more right than you arefor falling in love with you? I don't fucking get it.

I love your pixel self Minsty

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I <3 you mintsy, but only as a friend...if there is only one slice of pizza left and we're in the same room, I won't even offer it to ya, IT'S MINE :D

In answer to JIMbean's question, have you ever had that ugly girl you were really just cool with? Then they started liking you more and more?Same scenario, reversed....only we're not"considered necessarily ugly.....or are we?

Also the whole friends into lovers thing can be possible. But it has to be felt by both people.


I mean who would you be better off with and growing old with? I would want someone who knows me inside and out. Someone that knows what I feel and what makes me laugh. Someone I have known for a long time.

The person you love should be your best friend.

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yo straight up if it was like that, that would be enough to give me closure, but i've seen some of the dudes that she's dated and I would consider myself way hotter (even with the love handles)

Also (and i know this doesn't really apply for women since they're not built hormonally the same [or are they?]) but even in those situations with the really nasty girl who likes you... i've totally given them shots, cuz you never know, you might wind up having something really amazing with the person..or maybe i'm justa total man whore.. who knows

I dont want to judge too quick, but from the information I get from your posts, this girl has "dadissues". Basically, the man that always should have been there for her starting at her birth, screwed up majorly.
With women this often tends to lead to the "controlfreak" behaviour. (she dates guys just for fun, rings a bell? she doesnt have to bond to them and she will have all the power)
She prolly knows you are a good guy, and maybe even a great match, a lifepartner or however you want to call it, but she is afraid. What if she falls in love in the romantic way with you and stuff doesnt work out ( thank her dad for her fears).


As for your options, either you try to convince her you might be her man and she might date you.
Yes it can go wrong and you will feel incredibly hurt, but do you want to look back at your life in 20 years and smack yourself in the head for not even trying it?
Thing is, if you dont even give it a try, you gonna stay fucked cause you have all these feelings for her you cant express in the way you want it and they will come up everytime you see this girl.
Better lose her when you tried it, than always feeling bad when you just did nothing with it out of fear of losing her.


Thats my view on this, its just hard to give an opinion on stuff of which I dont even know 1% of the total picture of.

(sorry for my poorly constructed english lines, I hope it made sense in anyway)

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Deleted und retired. Ciao.

Jim all guys are total man-whores, I say/suggest you try my get fucked up go for it method..... also the same repulsiveness you usually feel (chemically) about an ugly girl liking you is about equal to (chemically) what this girl probably feels when friends end up liking her. Not saying its the same really, yet it kinda is. I know you're HAWT Jim, if I had a vagina, I'd let you tear it up. [/quote]

LMFAO I really needed that laugh after the day I've had. :D

I think Oxyotl made the point. She wants a reliable man in her life, and in order to make sure you stay like that, you're only going to ever be her friend. She's afriad of commitment and abandonment at the same time. She dates loser guys b/c she probably feels needed and that she can do some good for them. She was never needed by her father, so there is this desire forever stuck in her head to try to fufill that.
Telling her that you're much better than the guys she's dating will not help you, at all. It will only tick her off at the most. Keep that one to yourself.
From what it sounds like, you're going to need to wait untill she's calmed down a bit, maybe after she's stopped dating so much. She'll be more open to thinking then.

And Mintsy, I've been proposed to on FFXI before, be happy you picked a taru. -.-

I had someone say I had pretty eyes in KRT on FFXI. I was like "You cant see my eyes....."

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yeh you definitely hit the nail on the head she does like to kinda see guys as "projects" for her to make better. Of course i offer her the best of both worlds, someone she can fix and someone to fix her ass (lol) i dunno, really it's not about trying to get w/ her at this point, i've kind of come to the conclusion of that, but really all i want now is answers.. why she doesn't feel the same way, how she could reciprocate in such a seemingly honest way, and then we both have such oppsoite views when it comes to relationships or whatever. ><

Well people say you cant make someone love you.... but those people are stupid.


You can make someone love you. I dont think there is love at first sight. I think you may see something in that person, but that doesnt mean love. I know someone right now that im trying to get to know better. I find them interesting ( which I dont find in many people) and I like to be around them (I despise people). Who knows though maybe I will grow on them.

Ok enough hijacking.


If you have questions bean...ask them. If your scarred of asking her what she feels towards you that isnt a good sign. You should be able to be open to them. You dont need to get drunk to express your feelings either. And if you think a relationship with her would be good because you can FIX each other up...thats not good. In a relationship you take a person as they are. Maybe that is why she has so many, because she goes into them thinking she can change them. You should never allow yourself to change just for someone. I dont mean change as in quit drugs and such, I mean change as in who you are and how you act.


It sounds to me like she either doesnt have feelings for you that way, or she is scared. She could be scared to lose you as a friend if things dont work out. Sounds like you have been a shoulder for her for awhile and she may need that more then a boyfriend. She may think you might leave her like her father did.


and as Freud would say....you may be in love with your mother...

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