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| vegan propaganda http://www.yarrthepirate.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5500 |
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| Author: | Rubyxiii [ Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | vegan propaganda |
whenever i start a thread like this on other forums it usually leads to a nice flame war so this might be fun. anyway, if your not in ckd you probably dont know this about me, but i am vegan. now im not necessarily passing judgment on anyone here, but people should at least know exactly whats behind there dinner instead of this fools paradise of "happy meals" and all the other ignorance driven bullshit we hide behind about it. so now that thats said heres something for all of us to enjoy, if you have a weak stomache then GOOD should be all the more effective: mms://a805.v9135e.c9135.g.vm.akamaistre ... 02_med.wmv |
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| Author: | Fabian [ Mon Jun 27, 2005 12:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
seen that movie like 2 years ago. Poor animals. 1 up Ruby! |
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| Author: | Hai [ Mon Jun 27, 2005 1:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I can't say I endorse any of this. But that doesn't change my mind about eating meat. Meat is something I enjoy eating and I feel it's good for me. If I really wanted to I suppose I could get my protein from somewhere else.... but I really like meat, haha. Animals, IMO, don't have feelings the same way humans do. I feel they're here to be eaten, by me. I guess I can feel compassion towards those animals having to live like that. But they're animals..... that's kinda what they're for, eating. Anyways, after watching that I think the conditions should be improved. Even though I don't really think animals should have the same right as humans in regards to quality of life and freedom, i think there's a line you have to draw, and these people have crossed it. |
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| Author: | Matti [ Mon Jun 27, 2005 1:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Consider someone else and stop preaching about animals. I didn't eat meat for 4 years but it wasn't because of some animals. It was because my stomach was/is fucked up and I throw up a lot. After 4 years of no meat and no caffeine I was still in the same position with my digestive system so I decided to go back to my old eating habbits. In my opinion there is too much bad shit going on between humans to even worry about some animals that happen to be lower than us on the food chain. |
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| Author: | Fabian [ Mon Jun 27, 2005 1:09 pm ] |
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yea i kinda agree with you Hai, those animals there are raised for 1 thing and 1 thing only, to be eaten. But yea some of there conditions should be improved. |
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| Author: | arlania [ Mon Jun 27, 2005 1:18 pm ] |
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Their conditions should be improved based solely on the fact that its not 100%healthy for us right now how they are raised and fed chemicals. Animals are there for us to eat. We are omnivores so we are made to eat both. :P Now im off to gorge on cow entrails and chicken parts!! \o/ |
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| Author: | Feep [ Mon Jun 27, 2005 1:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Sorry, no real sympathy from me. The conditions are bad, yes, but humans are designed to eat wonderful copious amounts of meat, a natural process for quite a large part of the animal kingdom. Sure, we could all do it like the nice happy wonderful lions do it, each member going around and hunting their own meals, but as a culture, we've advanced beyond such tediousness and have found ways to feed the entire population in far less time and expense. For every animal you vegans don't eat, I'm going to eat three. http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=sponsor |
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| Author: | Mikey [ Mon Jun 27, 2005 1:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
i've actually been eating meat less and less. Its really only because lately certain meats have been bugging me. Not that i'm leaning towards becoming a vegan and such. Its more so that i don't think i need to eat meat 3 times a day... |
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| Author: | Reinheld [ Mon Jun 27, 2005 1:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I roll around in animal parts and bathe in their blood. |
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| Author: | Whisp [ Mon Jun 27, 2005 1:54 pm ] |
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That's a powerful video. Was that Alec Baldwin narrating? I know the world may have a few "greater problems" but this is one of the worst. And if we can understand what it is about humankind that leads us to do horrible things like this, we will understand the root of all our problems. |
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| Author: | Ilm [ Mon Jun 27, 2005 1:56 pm ] |
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The type of garbage they put it in fastfood pisses me off. Its like eating fucking dogfood haha. ｐｏｒｔｅｒｈｏｕｓｅ ｓｔｅａｋ ｉｓ ｙｏｕｒｓ |
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| Author: | Xiona [ Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
i'm still gonna eat meat. no reason to flame you. we all make our choices, so long as you respect mine i see no reason not to do the same for you. |
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| Author: | Talisin [ Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
some dog food is good you would be susuprised |
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| Author: | Rubyxiii [ Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Hai wrote: Animals, IMO, don't have feelings the same way humans do. havent you ever had a dog? animals very much have emotions just as humans do, they can feel fear, pain, stress, depression, happiness, love. and yes if they are beaten, mutilated, have there throats slit while alive, they very much feel it in the same way humans do. Matti wrote: Consider someone else and stop preaching about animals. i dont think i was preaching at all, all i did is show you guys whats behind your dinner you can take what you want from it now. yeah i opened up the field for discussion, so this post is my retorts but if im preaching here oh well, its just my responses to other peoples replies. Matti wrote: In my opinion there is too much bad shit going on between humans to even worry about some animals that happen to be lower than us on the food chain. kindness to humans amongst humans and kindness to animals amongst humans hold much of the same values lacking in the causes of "bad shit going on" Feep wrote: The conditions are bad, yes, but humans are designed to eat wonderful copious amounts of meat, a natural process for quite a large part of the animal kingdom. Sure, we could all do it like the nice happy wonderful lions do it, each member going around and hunting their own meals, but as a culture, we've advanced beyond such tediousness and have found ways to feed the entire population in far less time and expense. our diet, especially in america, contains way more meat than we were designed to consume. you speak of we should do whats natural but then praise the unatural way we go about it. as far as expense, animal cultivation is an enormous waste of resources. the resource input/output ratio to produce meat is overwhelmingly inefficient next to comparable vegetable based diets. i mean this when i say it, that if all the energy we expend to produce meat was used toward vegan diet production, world hunger would end. Reinheld wrote: I roll around in animal parts and bathe in their blood. mikey rolls around in my crotch and bathes in my semen. Talisin wrote: some dog food is good you would be susuprised
actually my dog is vegan as well, 4 years strong. |
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| Author: | Hai [ Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Rubyxiii wrote: Hai wrote: Animals, IMO, don't have feelings the same way humans do. havent you ever had a dog? animals very much have emotions just as humans do, they can feel fear, pain, stress, depression, happiness, love. and yes if they are beaten, mutilated, have there throats slit while alive, they very much feel it in the same way humans do. I tend to disagree with you. I think they could feel pain in the same way we do due to the fact that they cringe when you hit them or shock them or anything. But to then go as far to say that they have emotions like humans? Happiness, love? I think love is a completely human emotion. Compassion and creativity is also something inately human. And you obviously believe that they do. Are you to say then that animals are no different than human beings? They have the same mental capacity as us? That maybe one day we will all realize that they deserve to be among the ranks of humans and then we'll stop killing them for food and allow them to roam the earth as they please? I think that logic is pretty skewed. |
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| Author: | Thunderstomp [ Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I'm a vegetarian and I can't sit through more than half of that video, it's too much for me. For the people who think we should focus on human problems before we worry about the animals, remember that compassion is a universal characteristic. It's your own choice whether you want to eat meat or not, but how can you support these conditions? Animals have feelings. Humans are animals too, lest you forget. Other animals may have less capicity for feelings than humans, but they have them nonetheless. |
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| Author: | Whisp [ Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I used to have two chihuahuas. I know animals feel the emotion of love. Seeing them for the first time in two years, having them lick me all over my face, and once they get tired they insist on cuddling next to me and only me. Same mental capacity? No. And does it even matter that they have simpler emotions than us? Nah. They feel the pain of torture and separation, that's for sure. I think the root of this problem lies in how humans view themselves, how humans learn things at a young age, how humans tend to think short-term. Most humans think we are at the center of the universe. We are a God's chosen species. All other species were created for our use. We are above animals because we are smarter than animals or because we have the power to manipulate them. We teach our children it's chicken or beef not chickens or cows. They don't associate the animal with the meat like they should. People just want a quick meal, they want to feel full. The world is driven by money, and money is what determines our eating habits. The meat industry is huge. Hard to topple. It has its filthy fingers rooted in every industry. I respect the "Native American" outlook on life: balance. Equilibrium. They eat meat? So what. They do it naturally. They don't mass produce animals as if they are items. Animals are life. It sickens me to see some bloated farmer blissfully torturing animals so he can earn money. I'd like him to feel what they feel for a moment. |
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| Author: | Thunderstomp [ Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Hai wrote: Rubyxiii wrote: Hai wrote: Animals, IMO, don't have feelings the same way humans do. havent you ever had a dog? animals very much have emotions just as humans do, they can feel fear, pain, stress, depression, happiness, love. and yes if they are beaten, mutilated, have there throats slit while alive, they very much feel it in the same way humans do. I tend to disagree with you. I think they could feel pain in the same way we do due to the fact that they cringe when you hit them or shock them or anything. But to then go as far to say that they have emotions like humans? Happiness, love? I think love is a completely human emotion. Compassion and creativity is also something inately human. And you obviously believe that they do. Are you to say then that animals are no different than human beings? They have the same mental capacity as us? That maybe one day we will all realize that they deserve to be among the ranks of humans and then we'll stop killing them for food and allow them to roam the earth as they please? I think that logic is pretty skewed. Doesn't sound like you've ever owned a pet. |
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| Author: | Rubyxiii [ Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
animals cant feel happiness? you gotta be kidding heh, seriously havent you ever had a dog? havent you ever seen a dog be happy? animals can indeed be creative as well, one thing that comes to mind is an ape that was taught sign language in captivity. he became angry with his master and wished to express it, and he called his master "toilet head" or something along those lines because he didnt know any words to properly insult him. i dont know about you but to me that is a clear mark of creativity that he was able to do that. even going back to dogs, my dog has learned how to cover himself with his blanket. he sticks his nose under the edge of a blanket and flips it up so it catches on his head, then he spins around so the blanket wraps around his whole body and lies down completely covered. that took at least a small amount of creativity to figure out how to do that. the above isnt really the basis of my argument though. yes i agree that humans are the most intelligent animals on this planet and have the highest mental capacity but i dont see why that entitles us to anything special. thats like saying only people who scored above X score on an iq test, or only people with at least a bachelor's degree are allowed to vote in presidential elections. there would be riots in the street. |
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| Author: | Mikey [ Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Hai wrote: Rubyxiii wrote: Hai wrote: Animals, IMO, don't have feelings the same way humans do. havent you ever had a dog? animals very much have emotions just as humans do, they can feel fear, pain, stress, depression, happiness, love. and yes if they are beaten, mutilated, have there throats slit while alive, they very much feel it in the same way humans do. I tend to disagree with you. I think they could feel pain in the same way we do due to the fact that they cringe when you hit them or shock them or anything. But to then go as far to say that they have emotions like humans? Happiness, love? I think love is a completely human emotion. Compassion and creativity is also something inately human. And you obviously believe that they do. Are you to say then that animals are no different than human beings? They have the same mental capacity as us? That maybe one day we will all realize that they deserve to be among the ranks of humans and then we'll stop killing them for food and allow them to roam the earth as they please? I think that logic is pretty skewed. Hai, you ever heard of about dolphins? Have you ever heard stories of them saving people from drowning? Wouldn't that in a sense be considered compassion? ol heres a good one. Ever been beaten by a Duck a mother duck that is. I was walking a park i may have gotten to close to the babies and she came out and bit the living shit out of me. I ran screaming like a fat girl looking for some cream puffs at 5 am in the morning. Now think about that one too, wouldn't that in a sense be considered compassion and love? They probably feel it in different way i suppose. |
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| Author: | Matti [ Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I see a lot of you missing something. You seem to have over looked to fact that we (humans) are animals. We were built to survive not to worry about HOW we survive but to SURVIVE. Maybe I'm a little harsh but I really couldn't care less about these animals. I can understand where you all are coming from but come on... I know that you can have a healthy diet from nothing but vegetables and legunes but we weren't meant for that. I'm a firm believer in "Survival of the fittest" and being at the top of the food chain gives us an advantage. haha It's the same as when I see some poor mentally retarded person struggling to control their bowels. It makes me sick to think that anyone would be allowed to live like that. |
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| Author: | Thunderstomp [ Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Matti wrote: I know that you can have a healthy diet from nothing but vegetables and legunes but we weren't meant for that.
What were we meant for? Millions of Asians are vegetarians, millions of Hindus don't eat pigs, millions of Muslims don't eat cows, the bible states that eating anything from the ocean that doesn't have scales (lobsters, oysters, sharks) is against God's will, etc, etc. But let's get back on topic, let's hear more arguments in favor of the mass-torture of more of "God's creatures" aka chickens, cows, pigs. |
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| Author: | Matti [ Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
...don't start the god argument... You can't say that humans were meant to eat only vegetables. In fact you can't say that humans were meant to eat strictly meat. Humans were given the ability to survive... Quote: There has been much dissension among scientists regarding the topic of human physiology and diet, and opinions have spanned the continuum from one end to the other. The fact is, human physiology does not fit neatly into any of the three major categories of mammalian diets: carnivorous, herbivorous, or omnivorous. We have a few traits from each of these classifications, which makes it easy for researchers to "prove" their position merely by pointing out those characteristics that suit their particular opinion.
It is often suggested that specific features of human anatomy or physiology dictate our behavior. However, from the perspective of diet, our physical makeup only prescribes our nutritional requirements, not how specific nutrients must be obtained. For instance, although we have a nutritional need for iron, there are many dietary sources of iron. Nutritionally speaking, it is irrelevant whether we get our iron from plant or animal sources; what matters is simply that we get it. That's from a Vegan site. (Vegsource.com) You can't argue that we were 'designed' to consume strictly one type of food however you can say that we were made to survive. It's that simple. You have a choice of what you want to eat. You don't want to eat meat? Then don't. My argument is that we were made to survive and sometimes survival isn't pretty or "politically correct" or whatever.. |
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| Author: | Morachi [ Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
The reason farmers mass produce everything from fruits to vegatables to animals is the population of the world. If you look around your neighborhood I'm sure you'll find one or two families that have kids to just have kids. Sure, life is wonderful but people are doing things now because they can and not stopping to think if they should. This world is becoming more and more polluted not just by gases but by people. People seem to think that there's no reason to stop what they're doing if it doesn't hurt them in their lifetime. There is going to come a time when we must all pay for our sins. /2cents |
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| Author: | Ponuh [ Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:19 pm ] |
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Guys all this is good and well. I love animal lovers because I have a brilliant scheme to make 100-200 dollars at their expense. |
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