I have just writen a complaint to the FCC. This is a test. Following comments by religious broadcaster Pat Robertson, in which he stated that Dover, PA, "voted God out of your city." I, myself, am an atheist. for him to say such comments, is like telling me the all I believe in is wrong. I know that I'm not like most people. I think differently than most. Now then, this is what im trying to see. Will the FCC sanction him for his comments like they do to Howard Stern, or will they tell me to suck it up?

I am sick and tired of the "Religious-Right" in this country. They need to apply a lost secret known as reasoning. My greatest fear is that they will, one day, make it so that my life here, in the country I love so much, impossilbe to live. This has gotten out of hand. They are toying with science. They are forcing me to believe what they want me to believe. They want me to think that Marrage is what they say it is, and that love have no factor in it. I am sick and tired of this shit. I am sorry that I have to vent here, but outside of Kaze and 2 others, I have no place to vent.

I want this country to wake the fuck up and actually look at the document in which this country is based on. Its as simple as that. I realy dont give a fuck anymore. I get nothing but harrassment from people trying to get me to goto church, even after I tell them nicely {Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass}. If I pressed charges, would they actually try the case, more than likely, no. Because I am not part of any major social group, I am automatically wrong, eventhough Im correct in my actions.

What is even more troubling, is that there is a guy on Pat Robinson's show that says, "I think politics and religion should mix." I guess this fucker never heard the saying, "Separation of Chruch and State." That that statement is a work of fiction by people who live by the Constitution. And that the bible is what we should all live by, eventhough that he is not a biblical scholar, and cant make proper research into the book. I will continue in a reply to this thread when im not as pissed...

PS: I have no issue with people and their own religion. I only take issue when they start to preach from it and try to tell me stories from it. They act like mindless drones, for the most part. I know some cool people whom are religious, but they do not let their beliefs cloud their judgements.




here are a few stories about what he said:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9995578/
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051111/ap_on_re_us/robertson_evolution

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If only you all had a large Proton-Enhanced Nuclear Induction Spectroscopy machine like I do.

Heh, couldn't agree more. You sound like me when I start ranting.

Come to church with me. Believe what I do. Drink this punch we have made. If you don't, you're going to hell.

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I'm just a question knowing my answer,
hope I'm wrong.

I bet hell is nice an cozy, and you don't need blankets. What more could you ask for?

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Hey, GL w/ it Cham lol.

try living in Kansas. Its pretty much the embarresement of the country right now. They just pasted a law that allows "Intelligent Design" to be tought in schools because they think it will help them in assesments.....

So yea what ever happened to Church and State? My bio professor at college just kept saying how Kansas just keeps on moving backwards. About 6 years ago my town made national news when the schoolboard tried to get a mandate passed that allowed "Intelligent Design" to be taught in school. Luckily it didn't passed and the school board made a mockery of its self.

Evolution is theory based which people don't understand. All the bible thumpers just see it that school science programs are trying to make Evolution come off as a actual Law of Nature. Unforunently Bible Thumbers are prolly the ones that failed Biology and don't remember no law of science is made a law until it is proven mathematicaly. And last time I checked Evolution can't be proved by Math......

Science is proven through objective experimentation, not subjuective opinion.

"The Universe is too complexed, thus it must have been created by someone/thing."

Its nothing but a pure assault on science. It doesn't take a fucking biologist to see this, you just have to have to be alive.

"Gays should not be able to marry b/c god disapproves of gays."

Nobody can tell me, beyond a religious point of view, why there isn't same-sex marrage. This is proof that society is immature. I have gay and lesbian friends. I want nothing more than to see them fall in love and get married.

When we pass laws that are purely based on a skewed religious belief, then those that are not of that faith suffer. If you wish to help me to get some reasoning and maturity into the government, then call your senitors and congress reps, and tell them.

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If only you all had a large Proton-Enhanced Nuclear Induction Spectroscopy machine like I do.

You're missing the whole point. God isnt the explanation for a particular complex fact, it's to explanation given to one of the possible answer that explain infinity.

If you believe in science, you also have to believe universe is infinite, meaning you will never figure everything with science, you can only get closer.

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Main: War75/Sam63/Blm71/Rng45
Sub: Nin37/Thf37/Whm37/Mnk30
Three nation: Done Zilart: Done CoP: Done

So very true, but what they are do is trying to make an un-scientific idea taught as a scientific fact. And when a city votes out 8 members of its school board for the fact that they made "I.D." the basis of the biology dept. for their high school, then a religious figure from TV says something about how they turned their back on god, doesn't that raise flags?

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If only you all had a large Proton-Enhanced Nuclear Induction Spectroscopy machine like I do.

couldnmt agree with u more cham. this country is, as the saying goes, "going to hell in a hand-basket." the religious right has this country at its whim cuz no one has the damn backbone to stand up for them and become a target. no one wants to stand up for what they believe is right in politics, because then they fear having no political future. later in life, i honestly want to run for congress and be that guy that actually stands up for what he believes in and not recoil because some people mite get mad at me

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WAR75 BLM75 PLD75 DRK75

Shadow Ring 5/13/06

Don't get me wrong about that. I've nothing against them, but you asked for a reason beyond religious point of view, so I will answer.

Marriage, civil or religious, exist mostly for the purpose of procreation, and you probably know homo people won't make strong children ;p

Why are children so important to the society? Mostly because any society need more than 2 children per family to survive, otherwise, they will disappears after a few decade.

I understand it's entirely gay's fault, but adding those law doesn't help the situation.





What is I.D?

There is extremist on science side as much as there is extremist on religion side. I don't think people who want to "ban" religion are much better than the one who swear only by God, especially when they never bothered looking at the whole situation from a different perspective.

Before you think I'm a religious freak, I can assure you I'm not. I don't follow any religion and my faith is close to the absolute zero. I studied physics, and now computer sciences and love science in general, but I don't see any need to attack religion.

I've one question, is there any atheist who can justify their position? All of can only tell me "RELIGION IS BEING MEAN WITH ME, THEREFOR, GOD DOESN'T EXIST" which is a flawed reasoning.

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Main: War75/Sam63/Blm71/Rng45
Sub: Nin37/Thf37/Whm37/Mnk30
Three nation: Done Zilart: Done CoP: Done

How dare you skew what I am trying to say. Just because I am an atheist doesn't mean I go around disrespecting people for believing in theology. It comes a point where I draw the line. I draw the line at the point where reason is being overridden by subjective thought. You have no grasp of what I truely am trying to say. And making the arguement about same-sex couples not being able to procreation is flaw there in the fact that most couples choose to adopt. As well, in some couples, one or both of the parteners are unable to do their end of the bargin and/or they have an STD that would be transmited to their child(ren).

Now then, this is not a rant from me about religion. Its more or less a rant about the failure of the Saparation of Chruch and State. "I.D." is, how shall I say, flawed. The point of science, in my opinion, is to search, with out end, the truth. "I.D." on the other hand, states that the Universe, being so complexed, must have been created by something. Now then, I ask you this, why should I not voice my opinion, when the scientific process, in which almost all modern science is based on, comes under fire?

I have not issue with religion, I am not one to say ones religious beliefs are wrong, unless it is so skewed that killing others and forcing ones beliefs upon others becomes part of it. Other than that, I dont care.

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If only you all had a large Proton-Enhanced Nuclear Induction Spectroscopy machine like I do.

Last night, several girls made me watch the movie "Saved". Really religious people are hilarious. ^^

I have to say though, I was unaware that there are areas in the country (outside of the deep south) where you still really got shit for not being a Christian. As a Jew, I've almost NEVER been hated on or called out, even living in this pathetic hick town of Gainesville. Then again, I'm kind of undercover, my nose isn't very large...

Tell those narrow-minded bastards to shut the hell up. No matter what you believe, I consider trying to force those beliefs unto others to be one of the worst evils a person can do. Do what you think is right. End of story.

The reason I said that is because you keep talking about the constant "attack" of religion, when it's really not that bad. You should be mature enough to know what to accept and what to refute without having to write letter to people and act like the world was trying to destroy science.

Science is healthier than ever.



Adoption doesn't make babies, it's just a transfert.

And I know not everyone can have babies, that wasn't the question earlier. I'm just saying there is reasons that aren't strictly religious for society to not be open to those marriages.

That said, Gay often talk like they were forbidden to stay together, which is wrong. Their right is still the same. Only difference if that they can't benefit of the few thing the "couple" status give you, but hell, single people don't benefit it for the same reason.

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Main: War75/Sam63/Blm71/Rng45
Sub: Nin37/Thf37/Whm37/Mnk30
Three nation: Done Zilart: Done CoP: Done

Now then, why should we now take anything you said and believe it? Quite frankly, you are an elitist, a hypocrit, aswell you are trying to marginalize what I am saying. Its funny how you say that your not that religious, but one would suspect that you are religious, none-the-less. You are trying to undermind my statements. You have no grasp on my maturity with this subject. There is many an idiot on both sides of the debate. But what you fail to see, its just as easy as looking back 300 years, is that relilgion is very uneasy about science. Most scientist, like Einstein and Newton, used science to get closer to their god. I use it purely to understand how things tick.



I indeed believe that the universe is infinite, but saying something created it is just trying to rationalize something that is infinite. This, you cannot do in science, as you should know. Somethings need to stand the test of time before they are taught. You try to marginalize what I am stating by saying that Im an angry Atheist.... True, I am an atheist, but last I checked, that has nothing todo with my ability to do science, breathe, act like a human being, think, etc.. You seem to have missed my point or you dont understand what I am saying. Let me try to dumb it up some for you...

I am an atheist. Yet, I am still a human, thus I can do everything else anyother human can do. However, being an atheist, I am more prone to be picked on for being an atheist. When I state what I see, I am attacked. When I commenct about being attacked, I am attacked. Stop demonizing me for thinking differently than you. I am very smart, yet, for thinking differently than you, I am dumb. You state that there is not same-sex marrige due, not to religion, but "Marriage, civil or religious, exist mostly for the purpose of procreation." I have another phrase that is basically the same thing as this quote: "Procreation not recreation."

Now then, please explain this: Why state one thing, yet act completely different?

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If only you all had a large Proton-Enhanced Nuclear Induction Spectroscopy machine like I do.

i became an atheist when i was 15, and now at 24 i am still an atheist. and i am very much opposed to having religious people decide my fate via politics.

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RIP Shiloh - I'll never forget ya

my belief is that space and time are both infinite. there is no edge to space, it is a mix of nothingness and matter forver, though not uniform. this belief cannot be proven since our telescopes are only so strong. i also believe there was no beginning to time, nor will there be an end. many scientists believe in the big bang as the beginning of time, but i believe it was only an occurrence.

and as i advance in my studies of biology, i also strengthen my belief that all life just follows the same pattern as non-life: there is no spiritual realm. i believe strongly in the concept of natural selection, that it is primarily responsible for the differences we see in the genetic code of living organisms. i believe life evolved from nonlife through a slow steady succession of changes. i believe that after death, we, as in our perception of existence, will cease to exist. the atoms that make up our bodies will persist forever in whatever other forms they end up in, but the perception created by our nervous system will no longer function when it goes unpowered. after death will be like before birth.

i believe in humanity, and thus i believe in finding a balance in nature. i believe finding a balance in nature is in the best interest of humanity. this means i stand for protecting the environment and population control. i have no religious beliefs holding me backing from approving of abortion, gay rights or the teaching of evolution. i don't believe any word should be a swear word, even loud tone of voice is more of a violation than use of a certain word. no sexual concepts should be shielded from any audience, but people should definitely have the freedom to opt out of listening or watching something they don't want to perceive.

the bible is mostly useless. it is decent for historical purposes, but its moral lessons are nothing we don't already know, and its spiritual stories are useless. damn it i gotta go but i would keep typing if i could. maybe i'll finish later. this is all just my opinion, keep in mind.

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RIP Shiloh - I'll never forget ya

there are studies saying the universe isnt infinate. that its expanding at a rate we cant see the edge. it makes sense too i mean if the universe is consistantly growing outward and a doughnut shape the distinction of the
"edge" is seemingly impossible to see. instead of seeing the universe like a sheet of paper its more like were on the inside of a doughnut, then imagine from there at a vast distance and consistant expansion trying to decipher the "edge".

religion was a common use for people before scientific reasoning to explain why things were happening. its lasted so long due to the fact it preys on the one human emotion that supercedes all others... Fear. while the bible is such a rediculous notion, ppl are afraid that theres a 1% chance that it could be true because current day science cant explain everything in the universe. people take things to literally, the bible was a story. a story to teach morals not instill fear, hate and prejudice. you dont see ppl taking Harry potter as their religion. the bible was written by men, just like harry potter. only difference is the writters of harry potter didnt claim divine intervention.

i think publc school should teach the effects of religion on our society before they start teaching religous ideals. religion was very very good method for controlling the masses in a time where enforcing laws was difficult. lets face it here... religion is a billion dollar a year business, tax free no less. its a cleverly planned coorperation, and i dont think it has any right to dictate what gets taught or what ppl can legally do (ie same sex marrage). just my point of view, you can be spiritual and moral without forcing it down others throat. oh and last thing, if you believe that ppl are going to hell for what theyre doing then let them... stop trying to save everyone its the very thing that christians etc did to oppress ppl who were different. if god really is the judge then let him/her/it decide.

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75WHM / 37SMN / 61BLM / 37RDM / 70BRD / 75NIN / 75RNG / 56THF / 37WAR / 37DRG http://www.myspace.com/dan_wyld

So very true. However, religious studies is under the school of social studies, anthropology, etc not science. I have no problem with this ideas being taught as it relates to history and such, but "ID" isn't the right way to do it.

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If only you all had a large Proton-Enhanced Nuclear Induction Spectroscopy machine like I do.

You don't have to believe anything of what I say, but the same apply for me about you. The whole point of arguing is to explain your point and try to make other understand it, and that's what we are both trying to do.

What you're saying basically is that everyone with a different opinion are trying to "force it" on you when they simply defending their point like you do, which make you the biggest hypocrite here.


And no, I'm not a religious person. You're making that assumption because I'm taking the opposite side in this debate. I've done this debate many times, and I always pick the side that is currently being bashed.



My bad, I forgot how mature you are.

The biggest problem with people like you is your ego, which is bigger than mine. When you take in consideration that mine is really big, your's scaring the **** out of me.





I did not said "something was created". Reread my statement, because you clearly misunderstood it.


The formulation of an hypothesis is one of the most important aspect of science. Saying there was a "beginning", and call it God is an hypothesis that is waiting to be confirmed, or disproven. I don't know why you're having problem with that, because it doesn't at any time contradict what science is doing.

Do you really think Newton physic is a "fact"? No, we all know it was only a theory and it was proven wrong.
Do you think Einstein was right with his relativity? No, his theory was also "wrong". Quantum physic? Ditto. String physics (no clue how it's named in english), it's the current theory, but chance is it will be proven wrong.

Obviously, making a theory about the ultimate explanation is a guess, but has long you don't have the tool to prove or disprove it, you can't say he is wrong to make this particular hypothesis.




Sqrt(-1).
Can you rationalize that?
Ironically, you can see physical manifestation of something mathematically "irrationnal" (ie: Black hole).
Just because there is a concept beyond what you can grasp doesn't mean it doesn't exit.

The same could be said about the number 0, who appeared very late in mankind's history.





No, I said there is more reason for the same-sex marriage laws other than religious laws.



Uncertainty Principle

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Main: War75/Sam63/Blm71/Rng45
Sub: Nin37/Thf37/Whm37/Mnk30
Three nation: Done Zilart: Done CoP: Done

i'm currently reading a book by Jimmy Carter called "Our Endangered Values." it basically expands on the fact that the modern political spectrum is being cleaved by religious fundamentalism. nothing new to me, but it is comforting reading it. and it's interesting to hear jimmy carter's take on the situation, not only because he is/was so involved in politics, but also because it's the viewpoint of a devout christian.

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RIP Shiloh - I'll never forget ya