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| Should Tookie Die? http://www.yarrthepirate.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7668 |
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| Author: | Supafly [ Mon Dec 12, 2005 3:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Should Tookie Die? |
He was after all found guilty, but....he is a changed man. Discuss http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story. ... 268671.htm |
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| Author: | Matti [ Mon Dec 12, 2005 3:57 pm ] |
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Kill them all I say... |
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| Author: | Yarr [ Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:18 pm ] |
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Im not a fan of the death pentalty, not that im someone whos about to protest it. I would suggest to just let him rot in jail. The guy started one of the biggest gangs in the US. Id let him rot and keep preaching anti gang stuff. Him dead isnt going to help anything. |
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| Author: | Matti [ Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:25 pm ] |
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Personally, (and I'm a little extreme) I think they should let some of the family members of the people he's killed do the execution. If someone killed my little boy/girl or my Mom/Dad I think the ultimate closure would be to take their life in return. It's only fair.. |
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| Author: | Hobbes [ Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:35 pm ] |
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I agree with yarr. Life in Prison I think would be the best choice. If hes truly a changed man, He can atleast turn some people away from the gang life. Him dead, doesn't do anything good. |
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| Author: | Proteus [ Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:40 pm ] |
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What most people miss is that there are two sides to these types of arguments. The moral and the logistical. Morally it would be wrong to kill the man if he is now diverting people from that lifestyle. Logistacally, he is a drain on society by burning up tax payers money and not offering a money return on his time served. The country in a whole would be better off if all the death row inmates that are done with the appeal proccess were executed. |
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| Author: | Ilm [ Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:42 pm ] |
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I say he challenges the president to a pissing contest, and if he wins he gets to live. |
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| Author: | Matti [ Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:48 pm ] |
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Proteus wrote: What most people miss is that there are two sides to these types of arguments. The moral and the logistical.
Morally it would be wrong to kill the man if he is now diverting people from that lifestyle. Logistacally, he is a drain on society by burning up tax payers money and not offering a money return on his time served. The country in a whole would be better off if all the death row inmates that are done with the appeal proccess were executed. True and I'm an engineer hence my "logical" point of view. :P Morals go out the window once you take someone's life imo. |
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| Author: | Purity [ Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:06 pm ] |
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He was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. He has repented for the mistake of making the Crips and perpetuating the Crips and Bloods Gang War. I say let him live the rest of his days in prison. Let him keep writing his books and preaching against the very monster he helped to create. To kill him would serve no other purpose other than POSSIBLY satisfy the family of the slain, though, at this point I'm sure they see his change and might have POSSIBLY forgiven him for what he did... but I haven't seen anything from family, so I can't back up that statement. To kill Tookie at this point would be wrong IMHO. He's been writing children's books and I'm sure his message has affected millions across the country/world. Let him continue to preach his message, I say. |
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| Author: | Chamelius [ Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:12 pm ] |
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Laws are laws. >.>;; I do aggree that he has done good, but it took him getting charged and convicted of murder for him to change, therefore, like many things, I dont take sympathy. I just dont care. This has been dragged you for long enough. |
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| Author: | Dmitry [ Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:45 pm ] |
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Ever notice a trend of people changing or finding Jesus once their in jail? |
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| Author: | Hobbes [ Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:27 pm ] |
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Dmitry wrote: Ever notice a trend of people changing or finding Jesus once their in jail?
Not like you have much else to do while you're there. |
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| Author: | Purity [ Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:44 pm ] |
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Hobbes wrote: Dmitry wrote: Ever notice a trend of people changing or finding Jesus once their in jail? Not like you have much else to do while you're there. Tossed salad, anyone? |
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| Author: | Xiona [ Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:11 pm ] |
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the only reason any individuals do these good deeds while in jail is because theyre in jail. ask yourself, do you think the founder of a gang would be doing all this shit if he never got caught? its good he decided to make the best with the time he has left, but he did do society a great injustice. now if he single handedly dismantled the bloods and crips, brought a measure of peace to the inner cities and maybe i dunno made up a recipe for spectacular sandwhich for Arby's... then maybe id say let him live. but Arby's is just too good as it is so i dont see how he'd ever do that. all joking aside if he was able to mend everything he's done and caused id be happy to continue to pay for him to live in a cell. the bigger the faults you create in life, the harder it is to correct them. |
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| Author: | Hobbes [ Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:53 pm ] |
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Xiona wrote: the only reason any individuals do these good deeds while in jail is because theyre in jail. ask yourself, do you think the founder of a gang would be doing all this shit if he never got caught? its good he decided to make the best with the time he has left, but he did do society a great injustice.
now if he single handedly dismantled the bloods and crips, brought a measure of peace to the inner cities and maybe i dunno made up a recipe for spectacular sandwhich for Arby's... then maybe id say let him live. but Arby's is just too good as it is so i dont see how he'd ever do that. all joking aside if he was able to mend everything he's done and caused id be happy to continue to pay for him to live in a cell. the bigger the faults you create in life, the harder it is to correct them. If he did all that I'd say let him go all together. But It seems an impossible task to me, I mean... How could you beat the simplicity of ham and cheese? For what he has done while in prison, death seems a bit harsh. Life in prison seems like a very worthy reward (Cant think of a more suitable word) for his changed ways, and the small attempts he has made to change what he has done. |
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| Author: | Xiona [ Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:06 pm ] |
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while hes made strides for the better, he still created a gang which not only was responsible for killing a LOT of innocent lives, but also provided an outlet to recruit people to kill, steal and rob for money. he is a man who moved along the digress of the things that men before him created to progress. when you are one of the creators of a group of people who only hate, then you are responsible for all the deeds they do. so really i dont see him as a person who just murdered a few people... i see as him being responsible for the deaths and murders of anyone by the hands of his gang. not to mention being responsible for providing a way to imprison those of low monetary status by giving way to false dreams and a sense of family. i hope everyone whos lost someone due to gang violence gets a chance to spit on his dead body. |
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| Author: | Supafly [ Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:22 pm ] |
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quote of the hour!!! Overheard from some lady on a national newschannel (sorry forgot name) "To glorify him (Tookie) from turning people away from a life of gangs is like glorifying ciggarette companies that encourage people not to use tobacco products." I thought that was pretty relevant lol. |
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| Author: | Salvatore [ Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:01 am ] |
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Oh well hes dead now and he deserved it to, He killed 4 people execution style and laughed about it. if your gonna do a crime and you get caught then you have to pay the price. If he really changed his ways and gave his soul over to God then today he is in paradise and all is good. |
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| Author: | Arnwulf [ Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:04 am ] |
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Yeah that and the fact that he never accepted responsibility for the murders and just blamed it all on the gang. He deserved to die plain and simple. |
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| Author: | Princess [ Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:35 am ] |
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Proteus wrote: What most people miss is that there are two sides to these types of arguments. The moral and the logistical.
Morally it would be wrong to kill the man if he is now diverting people from that lifestyle. Logistacally, he is a drain on society by burning up tax payers money and not offering a money return on his time served. The country in a whole would be better off if all the death row inmates that are done with the appeal proccess were executed. I've read studies that suggest capital cases in the end cost more than regular cases, so the death penalty in the end costs tax payers more money than if it weren't around. As to the person who said the families should be able to kill him, that's sick. |
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| Author: | Matti [ Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:54 am ] |
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People make me sick. Everyone is so damn sensative now that it's unreal. Just look around; people are changing the term Christmas tree now because people are so fucking sensative about their relgion. It's pathetic. Everyone is so sensative to everything that they think that someone who has started a HUGE gang and killed several people should be allowed to live simply becaue he wrote some kids books? lol I'll tell you a story..My brother has been to county and prison so many times I've lost count. EVERY time he goes he 'finds god' and comes out a changed man.....for about a month. Then it's back to selling drugs and not sleeping for weeks, getting paranoid and starting fights with everyone who tries to help. It's ridiculous. And let me tell you from experience that finding god and writing some books doesn't make killing an ass-load of people right. It doesn't redeem you. I see celebrities talking about how this bastard should live but where are the families of the people he's killed over the years? What about all the people who have died as a result of this gang he's responislbe for? Get your head out of your asses and realize that this guy is a murderer. He didn't rob a gas station or something he killed people. You can't take that shit back... |
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| Author: | Arnwulf [ Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:57 am ] |
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Matti wrote: Get your head out of your asses and realize that this guy is a murderer. He didn't rob a gas station or something he killed people. You can't take that shit back... Darth Plageous the Wise can....he can prevent people from dying, I saw it in Star Wars. ;p j/k Good point though Matti, I whole-heartedly agree. |
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| Author: | Macabre [ Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:22 am ] |
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I am with Matti on this one. My uncle has been to federal prison 4 times. I keep in contact with him a lot because I always believe, if people just put faith in him, he can change. He is a great person, very loving and caring, just he has a alcohol and drug addiction he can't beat. Every time he leaves he says he will stop and not a week later is doing the same thing he did to get into prison. And for those that think keeping in prison over execution because it cheaper haha. Prison inmates get better medical care in prison that prolly 65+% of the population in the unidted states. I think its sad when 30 million children are at or below the poverity rating in the United States and prison inmates are living a better life then what they had out side of prison. I am a big adovcate for "Eye for an Eye". And a great way to get rid of more cost for those on death row would be to get rid of the freaking SEVEN appeals they are granted. Jesus, after a 2-3 year trial process then maybe 15 years of appeals to only be found guily everytime is WAY over redundant. There are so many places that the government could shave costs and SAVE, yes the American govern't Save money lol. Plus I think that would relieve a little of the "overcrowding" in our federal prisons. |
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| Author: | Orignal [ Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:21 am ] |
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I would really have to agree that it does seem a little fishy that people only become a good person and a Christian after heading to death row. The guy broke the law and should thus pay the penalty, whatever is set up by the law. Whoever mentioned that death penalty cases are actually more expensive was correct. With all the appeals those cases usually have, it tends to be more expensive to the state to process those cases rather than just giving them a life sentence. More to the point might be the argument of increasing prison populations and more crowded prisons. As to whether the change was genuine or not is really irrelevant to this discussion. If he really did become a Christian and a good person, he will get his reward in the afterlife. If it was all an act to try to convince people to let him live, then he got what he deserved. |
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| Author: | Bob [ Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:03 pm ] |
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Matti wrote: Get your head out of your asses and realize that this guy is a murderer. He didn't rob a gas station or something he killed people. You can't take that shit back... True. Everyone says "Omg, he has done so much good after he killed those 2 people." Good for him, when he gets executed, he can have the knowledge that he helped some people avert his path. Hopefully it will be comforting on his way down to hell. Xiona wrote: all joking aside if he was able to mend everything he's done and caused id be happy to continue to pay for him to live in a cell. the bigger the faults you create in life, the harder it is to correct them. Really? He brought the two people he killed back from the dead? You mean those family are no longer greiving(sp?) over the deaths of their loved ones at the hands of a murderer? Think of all the trama he caused by that. No matter what, he took life from others, two for that matter. I say they should fry him twice in memory of the two people he killed.[/quote] |
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