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PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 11:03 pm 
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Most Islamic people?

They have countries that enforce laws to do that. It's a fucking town event.

And you know what? We discourage Domestic Abuse. We try to stop it. We don't tie the bitch down and help them.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:06 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:32 am 
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As for the second question that we want to answer: What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?

(1) The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam.

a) The religion of the Unification of God; of freedom from associating partners with Him, and rejection of this; of complete love of Him, the Exalted; of complete submission to His Laws; and of the discarding of all the opinions, orders, theories and religions which contradict with the religion He sent down to His Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Islam is the religion of all the prophets, and makes no distinction between them – peace be upon them all.

It is to this religion that we call you; the seal of all the previous religions. It is the religion of Unification of God, sincerity, the best of manners, righteousness, mercy, honour, purity, and piety. It is the religion of showing kindness to others, establishing justice between them, granting them their rights, and defending the oppressed and the persecuted. It is the religion of enjoining the good and forbidding the evil with the hand, tongue and heart. It is the religion of Jihad in the way of Allah so that Allah’s Word and religion reign Supreme. And it is the religion of unity and agreement on the obedience to Allah, and total equality between all people, without regarding their colour, sex, or language.

b) It is the religion whose book – the Quran – will remained preserved and unchanged, after the other Divine books and messages have been changed. The Quran is the miracle until the Day of Judgment. Allah has challenged anyone to bring a book like the Quran or even ten verses like it.

(2) The second thing we call you to, is to stop your oppression, lies, immorality and debauchery that has spread among you.

a) We call you to be a people of manners, principles, honour, and purity; to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling's, and trading with interest.

We call you to all of this that you may be freed from that which you have become caught up in; that you may be freed from the deceptive lies that you are a great nation, that your leaders spread amongst you to conceal from you the despicable state to which you have reached.

b) It is saddening to tell you that you are the worst civilization witnessed by the history of mankind:

i- You are the nation who, rather than ruling by the Shariah of Allah in its Constitution and Laws, choose to invent your own laws as you will and desire. You separate religion from your policies, contradicting the pure nature which affirms Absolute Authority to the Lord and your Creator. You flee from the embarrassing question posed to you: How is it possible for Allah the Almighty to create His creation, grant them power over all the creatures and land, grant them all the amenities of life, and then deny them that which they are most in need of: knowledge of the laws which govern their lives?

ii- You are the nation that permits Usury, which has been forbidden by all the religions. Yet you build your economy and investments on Usury. As a result of this, in all its different forms and guises, the Jews have taken control of your economy, through which they have then taken control of your media, and now control all aspects of your life making you their servants and achieving their aims at your expense; precisely what Benjamin Franklin warned you against.

iii- You are a nation that permits the production, trading and usage of intoxicants. You also permit drugs, and only forbid the trade of them, even though your nation is the largest consumer of them.

iv- You are a nation that permits acts of immorality, and you consider them to be pillars of personal freedom. You have continued to sink down this abyss from level to level until incest has spread amongst you, in the face of which neither your sense of honour nor your laws object.

Who can forget your President Clinton’s immoral acts committed in the official Oval office? After that you did not even bring him to account, other than that he ‘made a mistake’, after which everything passed with no punishment. Is there a worse kind of event for which your name will go down in history and remembered by nations?

v- You are a nation that permits gambling in its all forms. The companies practice this as well, resulting in the investments becoming active and the criminals becoming rich.

vi- You are a nation that exploits women like consumer products or advertising tools calling upon customers to purchase them. You use women to serve passengers, visitors, and strangers to increase your profit margins. You then rant that you support the liberation of women.

vii- You are a nation that practices the trade of sex in all its forms, directly and indirectly. Giant corporations and establishments are established on this, under the name of art, entertainment, tourism and freedom, and other deceptive names you attribute to it.

viii- And because of all this, you have been described in history as a nation that spreads diseases that were unknown to man in the past. Go ahead and boast to the nations of man, that you brought them AIDS as a Satanic American Invention.

xi- You have destroyed nature with your industrial waste and gases more than any other nation in history. Despite this, you refuse to sign the KYOTO agreement so that you can secure the profit of your greedy companies and industries.

x- Your law is the law of the rich and wealthy people, who hold sway in their political parties, and fund their election campaigns with their gifts. Behind them stand the Jews, who control your policies, media and economy.

xi- That which you are singled out for in the history of mankind, is that you have used your force to destroy mankind more than any other nation in history; not to defend principles and values, but to hasten to secure your interests and profits. You who dropped a nuclear bomb on Japan, even though Japan was ready to negotiate an end to the war. How many acts of oppression, tyranny and injustice have you carried out, O callers to freedom?

xii- Let us not forget one of your major characteristics: your duality in both manners and values; your hypocrisy in manners and principles. All manners, principles and values have two scales: one for you and one for the others.

(a) The freedom and democracy that you call to is for yourselves and for white race only; as for the rest of the world, you impose upon them your monstrous, destructive policies and Governments, which you call the ‘American friends’. Yet you prevent them from establishing democracies. When the Islamic party in Algeria wanted to practice democracy and they won the election, you unleashed your agents in the Algerian army onto them, and to attack them with tanks and guns, to imprison them and torture them – a new lesson from the ‘American book of democracy’!!!

(b) Your policy on prohibiting and forcibly removing weapons of mass destruction to ensure world peace: it only applies to those countries which you do not permit to possess such weapons. As for the countries you consent to, such as Israel, then they are allowed to keep and use such weapons to defend their security. Anyone else who you suspect might be manufacturing or keeping these kinds of weapons, you call them criminals and you take military action against them.

(c) You are the last ones to respect the resolutions and policies of International Law, yet you claim to want to selectively punish anyone else who does the same. Israel has for more than 50 years been pushing UN resolutions and rules against the wall with the full support of America.

(d) As for the war criminals which you censure and form criminal courts for – you shamelessly ask that your own are granted immunity!! However, history will not forget the war crimes that you committed against the Muslims and the rest of the world; those you have killed in Japan, Afghanistan, Somalia, Lebanon and Iraq will remain a shame that you will never be able to escape. It will suffice to remind you of your latest war crimes in Afghanistan, in which densely populated innocent civilian villages were destroyed, bombs were dropped on mosques causing the roof of the mosque to come crashing down on the heads of the Muslims praying inside. You are the ones who broke the agreement with the Mujahideen when they left Qunduz bombing them in Jangi fort, and killing more than1 , 000of you prisoners from suffocation and thirst. Allah alone knows how many people have died by torture at the hands of you and your agents. Your planes remain in the Afghan skies, looking for anyone remotely suspicious.

(e) You have claimed to be the vanguards of Human Rights, and your Ministry of Foreign affairs issues annual reports containing statistics of those countries that violate any Human Rights. However, all these things vanished when the Mujahideen hit you, and you then implemented the methods of the same documented governments that you used to curse. In America, you captured thousands the Muslims and Arabs, took them into custody with neither reason, court trial, nor even disclosing their names. You issued newer, harsher laws.

What happens in Guatanamo is a historical embarrassment to America and its values, and it screams into your faces O you hypocrites, “What is the value of your signature on any agreement or treaty?”


From Osama's Letter 5 days after 9/11.

Quote:
"Whoever says that Islam is free from terrorism or wants to differentiate between Islam and terrorism is committing Al Juhoud and that is Kufr Akbar – and will take them out of the fold of Islam.

The one who says ‘we should fight against terrorism’, he is fighting against Islam. We know very well that USA meant no one else by the term ‘terrorists’ but Islam and Muslims and the one who wants to avoid terrorism is avoiding Islam."

-- Al Muhajiroun (Bakir School of Thought) 6-21-2004


A pro-Islamist website's star quote. Their cover picture is the twin towers collapsing.

Quote:
"Jihad and the rifle alone. NO negotiations, NO conferences and NO dialogue."

--Sheikh Abdullah Azzam, Join The Caravan p9


Quote:
"As for those who cannot offer resistance or cannot fight, such as women, children, monks, old people, the blind, handicapped and their likes, they shall not be killed, unless they actually fight with words [e.g. by propaganda] and acts [e.g. by spying or otherwise assisting in the warefare]. Some [jurists] are of the opinion that all of them may be killed, on the mere ground that they are unbelievers, but they make an exception for woman and children sind they constitute property for Muslims."

--Sheikh Ahmad ibn Taymiyyah, The Religious and Moral Doctrin of Jihad, p28


Quote:
"The Shari'ah enjoins fighting the unbelievers, but not the killing of those who have been captured. If a male unbeliever is taken captive during warfare or otherwise, e.g. as a result of a shipwreck, or because he lost his way, or as a result of a ruse, then the head of state (imam) may do whatever he deems appropriate: killing him, enslaving him, releasing him or setting him free for a ransom consisting in either property or people."

--Sheikh Ahmad ibn Taymiyyah, The Religious and Moral Doctrin of Jihad, p29


Quote:
"Allah revealed Islam in order that humanity could be governed according to it. Unbelief is darkness and disorder. So the unbelievers, if they are not suppressed, create disorder. That is why the Muslims are responsible for the implementation of Allah's Law on the planet, that humanity may be governed by it, as opposed to corrupt man-made laws. The Muslims must make all efforts to establish the religion of Allah on the earth."

--Muhammad 'Abdus Salam Faraj, Jihad: The Absent Obligation, p43

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 1:36 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 1:53 am 
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do you have the source for the first quote, dinav? i must say im not shocked osama would say that, considering he's a religious fundamentalist wacko. but i still don't think that's his top priority, or even a factor for 9/11. he singled out USA for a reason. if he wanted to convert the world, he'd have more luck with countries in his own region than USA.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:44 am 
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Dinav wrote:
Most Islamic people?

They have countries that enforce laws to do that. It's a fucking town event.

And you know what? We discourage Domestic Abuse. We try to stop it. We don't tie the bitch down and help them.


No. But media romantises and sensationalises it. Our society accepts it and thus trivialises any transgression. Town event? Do you even watch the news? Its like a cirque de sole for dehumanization of victims, women more so. We do tie them down just not in a literalist sense. Nay, it is our expectations that bind them. It is the collective desire for controvesy and intrigue making a huge show of things. But these victims do not bleed to death. It is almost more humane to die by stones than to live the rest of your day beaten by rocks that don't draw blood.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:08 am 
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Taeuvyn wrote:
[
No. But media romantises and sensationalises it. Our society accepts it and thus trivialises any transgression. Town event? Do you even watch the news? Its like a cirque de sole for dehumanization of victims, women more so. We do tie them down just not in a literalist sense. Nay, it is our expectations that bind them. It is the collective desire for controvesy and intrigue making a huge show of things. But these victims do not bleed to death. It is almost more humane to die by stones than to live the rest of your day beaten by rocks that don't draw blood.


Impressively well written, someone has taken a few writing classes :) lol

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:05 pm 
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I find the electoral college vs. popular vote debate interesting.

The people who say electoral college is superior have this kind of argument: "The electoral college gives the smaller states a voice. If we used a popular vote, the only places that would be campaigned are New York California Texas and Florida--other states will be ignored."

I find that argument to be totally illogical. Here is why:

1- With the electoral college, in certain states you can be assured the state will vote a certain way. Like in Texas (Republican). Thus, a democrat in Texas has no voice. His vote actually goes to the Repub. Conclusion: Either way, some people will have no voice, so the "some people will have no voice" argument is also meaningless.

2- With the electoral college, the only places that are campaigned are swing states. Conclusion: Either way, some states are ignored, so the "some states will be ignored" argument is meaningless.

It's a federal election, it should be a federal (aka national) vote. At least then we could avoid having a president who lost the vote. We could avoid having the ultra-bias Supreme Court pick our president.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:00 pm 
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Whisp wrote:
do you have the source for the first quote, dinav? i must say im not shocked osama would say that, considering he's a religious fundamentalist wacko. but i still don't think that's his top priority, or even a factor for 9/11. he singled out USA for a reason. if he wanted to convert the world, he'd have more luck with countries in his own region than USA.


If was in a letter he wrote translated 5 days after. There were mentions of pulling troops out as well, I am merely defending my post.

Quote:
Funny....Can you even see a difference between Islamic people and terrorists?


Since I'm talking about those following Osama, not those following true Islam, you're argument doesn't hold. You forgot what the discussion was about a while ago. You also didn't read my quotes.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:00 pm 
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Just got back from my philosophy class at GSU, and we had an interesting conversation about the election and the America in general. There were a couple of people in my class who spouted out comments that sounded like they were coming directly from the mouth of Bortz/Hannity, and other radio personalities, so we took the time to discuss some of the topics.

Here is a well known cliche about our democratic candidate: "Kerry has no postitions on anything. He is a flip-flopper and a chameleon; he bends to the will of the people just to make himself seem more presentable."

This is an interesting point to bring up, because statements like this emphasize Bush's own system of beliefs: Bush has stated on many occasions that his system of beliefs is "steadfast and unwavering," completely the opposite of how Republicans like to portray Kerry. My professor brought up an interesting point about Kerry that I hadn't thought about before. Do we want a president who will adjust and amend his decisions based upon new information, or the will of the people (Kerry)? Or do you want a president who has a set of beliefs and is very admament on sticking to the plan, no matter what anyone says (Bush)? It depends on what you want in a leader.

Bush is not the kind of person to admit he was wrong about something. The overwhelming international community and half of the US believes Bush is wrong in how he went about invading Iraq. I for one would like a leader who isn't overly stubborn enough to ignore the rest of the world. In case you haven't noticed, hatred for America is at an all time high. Bush arranged a short term solution in invading Iraq without the support of the international community, but unless we redirect our agenda, the long term consequences will be devasting.

Kerry on the other hand, seems like the kind of person who will be a dynamic president, not entering the international conversation with the stubborn, "go it alone" attitude that has been the hallmark of Bush's foreign policy. The world is very rapidly becoming integrated, and Bush has, in the last four years, done retrogressive damage to the evolving world comminuty. Now we brought up the fact that many of the UN nations didn't join us in invading Iraq because of the economic relationship that those countries, like France and Germany, have with Iraq (it's all about the oil). The majority of the terrorists were from Saudi Arabia, not Iraq. Saddam Hussein did not in any way support Bin Laden, actually they are not friends at all. Why exactly did Bush invade Iraq anyways? Did you know that the percentage of civilians dying in Iraq has greatly increased since Bush decided to invade? Bush, in his stubborn way, chose to ignore the UN. Now I am all for standing up against others for what you believe in, but I don't want a leader who ignores the will of the international community. We are but one country in a world full of countries, and I wish we would start acting like it.

In conclusion I am not saying Kerry is the answer, but I am convinced that he is a step in the right direction. Bush is from Texas, and it's not hard to see the influence of his upbringing and the region he grew up in: he is a stubborn man, bordering on an isolationist, characteristics of a true Texan. It's funny how something so trivial as where you were born can affect the most powerful man in the world. I'm not going to vote, mainly because I didn't really get interested in the election until a few days ago and didn't register by the deadline. If I did vote, however, it would be more against Bush than in support of Kerry. So those are my thoughts, hope I wasn't too long winded.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:03 pm 
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The problem is, Kerry would be a great president if we weren't SPLIT 50/50 on most issues. You can't bend to the will of 50% of america and tell the other 50% to fuck off. And then bend to the will of the other group and tell the first one to fuck off.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:10 pm 
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Kerry isn't split 50-50, that's just how Fox and talk radio make him out to be.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:11 pm 
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Dinav, are you a Fox & talk radio listener? (Yes) (No)

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:55 pm 
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I didn't say Kerry was. I said America was, thus Kerry probably will be.

And I don't watch Fox, but I catch 30 minutes of talk radio...nothing else worth listening to.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:02 pm 
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Ironically, Kerry has said in one of his latest speeches that he doesn't think the Patriot Act goes far enough. Humorous indeed.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:49 pm 
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do you have the quote&source, kailyn?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:49 pm 
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I think that *must* be out of context lol.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:15 pm 
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Negative, it's not out of context. I think the author hits it dead on when he points out the poll numbers.

Source[/url]


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:35 am 
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Alright so Kerry used to want to scrap the Patriot Act and now he just wants to change it?

You may find Kerry humorous, but here's what I find humorous: Sean Higgins. The first paragraph of his article states Kerry thinks the Patriot Act doesn't go far enough, but then he never actually gives the quote anywhere in that article. LMAO.



(After reading other Sean Higgins articles, it is clear he's biased to the right).

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 6:18 pm 
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The exact quote is not in there no, he was paraphrasing this:

Quote:
We should preserve over 95% of the act and make improvements on the rest to strengthen the war on terrorism


Generally when someone says they want to make improvements to "strengthen" they are not talking about cutting it back. They are wanting to enhance the act. You can of course argue semantics, but his meaning is quite clear.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 11:25 pm 
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Looks like it's gonna come down to who wins Ohio




my thoughts at the moment:
Image
I will be entering Canada on December 31, 2004 if all goes to plan.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 11:27 pm 
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I hate people who say that.

If you don't like our system of government, you are welcome to leave. To me, you would be a sore loser.


But hey, it's still up for grabs. Florida is at 96% and still Bush's win. Ohio is atm Bush's lead, but the gap seems to be closing.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 11:28 pm 
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omg dinav i'm moving to canada for school not because i'm a deserter. adur.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 11:38 pm 
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i find it amazing how certain states vote. it seems like it's not by state but by region. bible belt & farmer's plains vote bush, while new england, north, and pacific coast vote kerry. amazing.

on a similar note, i've always been fond of new england, the north, and the pacific coast. and i've always despised the bible belt and the great plains. not for political reasons. but because of the mindset in those areas. although i have a feeling its the mindset that leads to the political slants.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 11:41 pm 
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I hate California, but I love NY.

I hate Alabama, but I love Texas.

I hate Oregon, but I love Penn.

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