when it turns out...
you're the asshole...
don't you hate it.
- Jason Rosenthal
(on the might of princes)

Ok, so I been doing a ton of thinking about this certain particular situation because I've wound up in it twice, and both times I've had really torn feelings about which decision was the right to make, and in retrospect, I don't know if I totally fucked a good thing up and made myself out to look like a totally selfish asshole, or if I made the right choice.

I guess there's really no other decision i could've made because of how intense my emotions are. Basically, the situation is: I meet a girl, she seems like a ton of fun and possesses these amazing qualities which draw me naturally into her. We flirt and everything is good fun for a bit. I'm always on my best behavior, because I'm happy, and my hopeless romantic is slid in subtley on conversation and actions.. as any true gentleman would play it.

So times goes on and I wait for that right moment to tell a girl how I feel, or to make a move. And once I do, I always get the same reaction. Which is, "I don't want to hurt you, but I'm not interested in you like that"

Now this, leads to a lot of anger and resentment, that one of the only people who I opened myself up to, and really believed liked me for me (otherwise why the fuck else would they hang around and act like it) has rejected me. That whatever I showed them, however beautiful my soul was, however charming and funny I tried to be, was not enough. WHY? and no one can ever answer that question... why, because i don't see you like that. we talk in circles.

And I try, knowing how much I already care about this person, and how much I look forward to seeing and hearing from that person, and my own feelings that need to nuzzle up into another who will understand and tend to them. I throw every dirty tactic I can at myself to get myself into thinking that this is and always will be just a friendship. but in the end, it always seems futile and the harder I try to resist the more the hopeless romantic in me wants to resist my restrictions. I go in circles.

So I become devastated, withdrawn, sad, depressed, suicidal, for now I've realized that I either endure the mental anguish of trying to stay friends with this person, and getting tastes of those nights when things were so awesome. Or I leave it all behind me and try to move forward without that salty bitter aftertaste lingering in my mouth.

Eventually I just become frustrated.. and force the issue, and provoke my anger with the person, because if I can see this person as my abuser, as the one who's at fault, then I can move on easier. This is a selfish act and I know it, but at this point I'm so submersed in my own world of emotions, that the only priority is to take care of me.

And then.... silence. We stop talking and I'm left to think about the situation. Was I being led on? Do I create this fake romance , because it's what I want, but it's not really there? Have I thrown away an amazing friendship because I thought it would make an amazing relationship? how else could I have dealt with it?

I'd like to hear your guys opinions. What does it mean when a chick wants to just be friends? Is it possible to have afriendship with someone if you've already developed feelings for them? Why do women care so much about friendship? Why can't women ever start to fall for you after they've already established in their mind they just want to be your friend? Why do women see men in 2 ways.. guys they just want to be friends with and guys they want to fuck/have relationships with? why why why fuck >< why

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First off, I can't speak for all the girls.. but i will tell you want i think
I tend to hear this question a lot.. whenever I hear my friends leave their bf... or reject a guy, the guy always ask, what isn't he doing right? Why is he not good enough?

Maybe it's cuz of the guys' competitive nature... a lot of times it't not really that you're not good enough. It's just that you are not the one she has in mind. You can do everything right, be funny and charming and all romantic, and still it just doesn't click on her mind that u have a potential. Somehow she just never see u in that light

There are so many reason why a girl don't want to start or want to end a relationship. Even if she showed that she's interested in u.
It might be because she thinks she's not ready for a relationship now... It might be because she still misses her ex... It might just be because she feels that what you want is not what she want: u might a serious relationship while she only wants a fling. It might be that already have someone else in mind... there could be many reasons

Sometimes... it might just be because u're too head over heel for her... you are just too good to her, to readily availble... which makes her hard to develop any longing feelings for you.



To me, it means u are a nice person and I trust you and know can depend on you.. but just don't have "enough"(if any) feelings for you at the moment.


It is possible. Very difficult. But definately possible. Me and my ex-bf is working it out right now. It's not easy, but I have seen it done.


Because friendship with a nice person has a MUCH lower turnover rate than a relationship w/ the same person lol~ (i.e. friendship last so much longer over a relationship, sometimes even marriage..)
Friendships are also SO MUCH MORE EASIER to maintain in good shape ^^ (Relationship takes a LOT of work lol)


because we just don't see what u do as romantic anymore ^^;; it's either funny, stupid or a waste of money ^^;; (think about it a lot of romantic things are really silly sometimes :x )



Don't guys see girls the same way? Some girl you can see having a relationship with, and some you are just simply not interested?

I can't really explain why some of us do it. But somehow we just see a person and we can see ourselves being with them... others we just see them as people... a lot of it has to do with first impression i guess I guess it's cuz most girls have a set "type" they have in mind (sometimes the type they want aren't actually the best for them either)... like some girls like the "shy" type of guy would never be all that interested in loud guys

wow. thanks for taking the time to read my post and reply with some really informative opinions and helpful information. I guess there is no true asshole in the situation, just 2 people who want different things and can't be who the other wants them to be. It's sad that things keep working out this way for me and I just have to deal and move on. Maybe I'm looking for the wrong type of person and who I'm interested in has some preconceived insight as to why it could never work. life sucks giant whale dick.



I dunno, this is silly, you like the person too much to want a relationship with them because you feel a relationship won't last as long/be as fruitful as a friendship with them. To me the benefits of being in love and having someone greatly outweighs what my friends offer me, but then I really only have like 1 RL friend who is currently hundreds of miles way. I look for guys to be friends with.. I have more in common with them, we can sit around and get drunk and bash women and play video games and talk about cars and bullshit that the majority of women have no interest in. But hanging with friends is so superficial.. it's like just to pass time until you find someone (at least how it seems to me based on friends that I've had in the past), not to mention I'm just weird and find the majority of people to either be boring or annoying.. I much prefer my own co. Secondly, when you have friendships like me, it's actually a ton of work, more work than I've had to deal with in relationships, i guess it's all a matter of where your heart lies and how much you actually give a shit what happens to that person.



can't speak for all guys... but my personal feelings and opinions on the matter is that guys are sort of trained to see women as sex objects before they see them as people, and the first thougth running through a guys head when they see a girl is whether they would want to fuck them or not. the only time we're "not interested" or "just interested in being friends" is when they're so hideously repugnant to us that we can't even see them as someone we'd fuck and never tell anyone about. Maybe this is a big part of the equation too.. guys are always weighing women under that, whereas women maybe aren't? So guys tend to think, if she doesn't want me that means she finds me physically or personally repulsive, and that's why we feel like we've done something wrong or aren't good enough for the person.

I dunno.. I just hope I die soon
I'm not made for this place
with all these weird creatures who lock up their spirits
and love is like roadkill
a pile of undiscernable pink mush
that everyone so thoughtless treads over
one after the other.

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this is not what i mean... i never said she likes the guy too much to want to be in a relationship with him... what i'm saying is she doesn't see this relationship go too far... or she doesn't want to handle the mess with breaking up with the guy, so she'd rather keep it as a friend ^^ because staying friends with the guy is less work and more worthwhile than having a fling with him ^^



I don't know how many relationship u have been in but i have a feeling u r idealizing a relationship too much. It's not really all that fun to be in a relationship sure the first month is all happy-dovy and stuff... but after that.. it's all work, work, work, compromise, fight, make up, compromise... Just plain lot of work ^^;



i think ppl tend to have more patience with friends then they do with their gf/bf sometimes... ppl tend to take each other for granted after being in a relationship for a while

Wow.

Gitaruru, welcome to the boards.

Gitaruru is my friend! I found her first!

And I think your just getting too over worked about this Jimmy. you'll find love eventually.

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I dunno, maybe this is where me and everyone else in the world differ, friendships have always been more work I'm telling you.. refer to the next question...



I've been in 3 major relationships. one lasted 9 months, one lasted 4 years and the last one lasted 4months. I had a bunch of like lil shit relationships that didn't get past the 1-2month benchmark. I can hoenstly say I've never been happier and felt more at ease and more focused in my life than when i was in these relationships, the problems however minor they were, always paled in the light of the fact that I had someone. But then I had the pleasureof being with people who were laid back like me and were oftentimes into the same things I were, so there wasn't a ton of compromising and fighting that needed to get done.. this is also why i tend to fall for friends because i see how well we could work in a relationship.. and how much more laid back it would be then this hectic friendship where we're walking on eggshells trying not to provoke eachotehr's feelings in anyway and the constant fighting and on again off again that goes on in having to deal with both people having this deep connection and wanting this type of a relationship and the otehr person not being down for that.



I agree with your point here, however a friend ain't gonna hold you after you've had a shitty day, which is really all any of us want i think

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I agree with you Jim. I think a relationship is better in some aspects then a friendship. But friendships are there for you to go to in bad times during the relationship. Most guys only befriend girls to start a relationship and some girls just want a guy friend that they can talk to and get opinions on stuff from. You are more at ease when in a relationship though because most everyone that isnt in one is seeking one. After you start one though if you have to work too hard at it its not right. I mean you have to work at relationships thats a given, but you shouldnt have to put in a full day of work just to get it right.

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dammit, this is supposed to be a general post about what happens when you fall for a friend, although i'm drawing from my own experiences to help me make points and add support to my opinions, it was in no way intended to be just a bitching about not being able to find someone thread or lookign for sympathy or anything.

you guys dissapoint me, i try and put an interesting topic on the table and everyone is either too scared or too aloof to post their own experiences and opinions on the matter. cept gitaruru so i applaude you.

and i'm getting overworked, because this has happened to me twice now, and both times were in friendships that lasted between 1 and 10 years, these are not lil trivial friendhsips with people i talk to once every 2 weeks.. these are deep intense relationships with people who i tied my heart strings around and are now gone.. this is a really diffucult thing to go through, and anyone else who has i would really appreciate your input and opinions.

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My personal expierence would be:


The last relationship I had I feel in love with the other person immensly. I wanted to marry this person and was happier then I had ever been. Then rumors started to fly around work (we worked together) that they were cheating on me with another person at work. I ignored this because we spent pretty much every day with each other and I thought it was just jealousy and what not. I admit in the back of my mind I had questions but they were unfounded. Then one day my significant other went to a party and I was stuck at home studying for finals and hanging out with my friends. They called me up the next day and told me they had something to tell me. Of course I thought something had happened to them and they may be hurt or what have you. Apparently they had gotten drunk and cheated on me at the party... This basically destroyed me. I cried for day straight and wouldnt eat. I eventually forgave them however and things seemed to get better...till they started hanging out with the person they cheated on me with. (it was the person they were rumored to be cheating on me with) I of course had a problem with this as I would think anyone would. I asked them "why do you hang out with them when you cheated on me with that person? dont you understand how that makes me feel?"This made me very upset and they didnt seem to care about me anymore and hung out with this person, even spending the night over at their house (they lived with 2 other ppl from work too) and going to parties there. Eventually it started to click and we broke up. I was heart broken already and this made it worse. Then about 2 months after we broke up I was informed that they had been cheating on me for awhile. I cant begin to express how my heart just shattered. I mean I still had lingering feelings for that person. Now im trying to get back into relationships but nothing seems to be going well and I just get depressed and angry all the time.


Moral of the story: love sucks go make friends and forget about it.

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jim, why are friendships important to anyone?
you keep forming these great friendships and then ruining them.
and you say that you are hurt, angry, and depressed.. but if i were those women who really just wanted to be your friend.. than i would feel 10times worse.
i mean, what is worse than knowing that the only reason someone hangs out with you is because they want to fuck/have relations with you?

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The lovers, the dreamers, and me.

Firstly, dude chill- this thread has been up for like 2 hours. >.>



I have to agree with this statement. Now, I have never been a relationship that anyone would ever consider long term, but I've helped a lot of people deal with their long term relationships, (why they come to me when I have no experience in the issue, I have no idea. ;p)

The idea of a relationship seems so perfect. Two people find a sense of belonging in one another and want to be together to share it. The initial stages of a relationship are so emotionally intense, it's impossible to create that scenario forever. Chemically speaking, there's a certain attraction between people in a chemical in the body called Phenylethylamine, or PEA. After a while, usually a year or so, the body works up an immunity to it, so it's up to the couple to find a way to respark the romance; otherwise everything falls apart. From what I've seen, relationships tend to work out better when the couple hasn't been really good friends for 90435834 years, perhaps because of an insatiable desire for variety humans have in their "mate" choices. After that initial stage where the couple finds out everything about each other, they begin to pick out the little nuances each other has, and bickering begins. From there, the couple must have enough mental fortitude to work things out if they truly want to be together- which I think is another beautiful aspect of a relationship itself.

I see a very marginal difference between a close, close friend and someone I'm in a relationship with. There is of course the intimacy issue, (Sorry, I don't have any friends with benefits, ;D) and the idea of exclusitivity, (is that even a word? Oh well fuck it.) However the inner workings are the same. Close friends aren't always "the best of friends," so to speak, nothing could ever be that immaculate. They argue about things and hate each other temporarily, but they're always there for each other to work out issues between each other and other people. They're there for each other "in sickness and in health," as lame as that sounds. Perhaps this is something I've tricked myself into believing because I've fallen for a few people I've been friends with for a long time and have experienced similar results. What can be entirely wrong with someone who is willing to devote time to you without the consequences of potentially hating you down the road?

The idea though, is that you can't let this girl you've become emotionally attached to see you flustered and upset about the issue. If you do, to her it seems like you have "plans" for each other, which generally scares both genders equally. The emotional qualities in a male can be very attractive to a girl, but forcing the issue because these emotions overrun your thought processes is a quick turn off. I totally understand where you're coming for; I'm very similar in some aspects. I'm just sharing some realizations I've had because of scenarios just like this.

Perhaps I just have a differing opinion of what a relationship is. Being intimate isn't the only way to show devotion and your gratitude toward another person. People understand each other and how they feel without having to "have each other", (not necessarily in the physical sense.)

*oops double post*

ah see this is exactly, where i am utterly confused and torn about the situation, because I care about these people, and because I can (to an extent) sympathise with their feelings, and like them I don't want to get hurt, or see them hurt either.

But my attraction.. no, no, my obsession with them gets in the way so much, that being around them after awhile just hurts too much to even be able to have fun with/around them anymore, and not to mention what happens when they bitch about their relationships or whatever ><. I wish it were just some foolish crush that i could turn on and off like a switch, but it's like, I'm in love with them, and my whole focus and attention is centered around them, thus again, making it extremely difficult to be ok with the 'just friends' moniker placed upon me. leaving me feeling like, why am I not good enough?

The last part i have a few answers for:

1. we should all be so lucky to have everyone we meet/hang out with want to fuck us, women are so lucky in this regard and see it as such a negative thing, what a waste/dissapointment.

2. i hate when the women have broken it down to me like this
[the only reason someone hangs out with you is because they want to fuck/have relations with you?]
(because both have) it's not really about wanting to fuck them.. again, it's about being in love with them. And you think they'd be flattered but oh no, it's like you raped their puppy in front of them.

3. Why is it so wrong for me to develop feelings for someone who i really care about and have a great time with, but the other guys who they wind up with want the same shit, and for that guy it's ok, but for me it's a tragedy. women should really excercise more caution about who they share their emotions with and what kind of signals they're putting out. I feel like women know instantly, based upon the look you give them whether you want to fuck them or not, and why lead someone on who you know has that desire for you? Does it sattisfy some urge to have someone constantly around you that wants you that you can just play around with when you need a pick me up? Because I feel like I've played that role. I wish they would've just said, "no you're unattractive" and left it at that the first week i knew them both.. innocent victims they are not.

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Please clarify, I'm not making any sense out of this. Tragedy?




Sorry to burst your bubble sir, but women aren't guilty of this solely. Guys can be just as manipulative in the things they say and do as women can be.

*clap*

thanks for the lengthy reply, you said some very insightful things in your post but i wanted to quote you on this paragraph to show where my interest in these people stems from. See with friendships, you find out everything about eachother, you take all the stuff that would've eventually come up and ruined the relationship (ie. people pretending to be who they're nto to impress their mate, people lying about embrassing things in their lives they wish to hide from their love interest, people's annoying habits that you don't even realize til after you're bored as shit with the person, etc.) and you lay it all out on the table, then you know after seeing all that whether you really could work with someone in the long run or not. Maybe i'm not like most people in that i hope and truly believe to find my soulmate one day, get married and settle down and live out the american dream. I am looking for someone who can know me inside and out, and know the right thing to say and the right thing to do to make it all better, I am not going to find this in a stranger... but maybe someone who still loves me and still has a giant smile on her face... every time see shes me.. even 10 years after the fact.



I was replying to mintsy's post where she said 'what's worse than knwoing the only interest some has in you is sex/relations" I was saying, why is it so bad for me to want those things, But some otehr guy that this particular "friend" decides to hook up with or w/e wants the same things.. and for that guy it's flattering, but for me, it's like a raped their puppy.




I'll agree totally, I wasn't trying to pidgeon-hole women, or even 'all women' just again, making a point that, there could very well be foul play involed on their part, where mintsy kind of made it sound like they're sole intention was always to keep me as a friend and they were oblivious to my feelings. Thus making them, the victim in this whole situation.

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what the hell o_o humans aren't dogs. we are capable of stronger emotions than just humping anyone we see.
and women are lucky in this regard? what lucky that we have to deal with rape and assult? no i dont think that is very lucky at all.
if women(or men) went around having sex with anyone who wanted them, than i think that would become a pretty neagtive thing. there is no way in the world to make everyone happy without hurting someone in return.



i would have to say that its hard to lose friend after friend. because after feelings can't be returned, then that guy who you trusted and loved as friend is gone. and it hurts alot. maybe as guys you don't understand this. but take my work for it, it hurts... alot.



because you've formed a bond with them. not all bonds are sexual. i'm sure you are aware that there is more than just one type of love.
maybe she was scared that if she didn't lead you on, than you would stop being her friend...which seems to be the case regardless.


you can't make everyone happy without hurting someone. i see my friends hurt all the time, i see them go through shitty relationships.. i see them fall for the same crappy person over and over again. and i know in my mind, that i could be the one who could change that, and i could make them happy and show them how beautiful the world is. but i can't be that person for them. i can't make everyone happy. i really wish i could. but it would be impossible for me to be with every one of them without being called a whore/slut/liar/whatever. so i stay away, and i watch, and i hope things get better for them. and that is all i can do.

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The lovers, the dreamers, and me.

I have to say, Misty took the words out my mouth. Jim, 10 years, I am really shocked that u risk a 10 years friendship for a chance of being in a relationship that prob. only last 1/10 to 1/2 of that.... when you risk YOUR (plural here, it's both ur's and her's) friendship for your own emotions... in some sense, that's selfish.

If I were the girl, I would be pretty hurt too... I would never allow myself to risk be attracted to a 10 years old friends that i trust and care and love (in platonic way). I just care about OUR friendship more than my personal silly infautuation/lust...







I don't think we have ever met, Shadow... how did u read my mind? lol~





/wave matti and lani
and congratulation on 75 matti @_@? have we lvl together before (w/ gitarooman) u lvl really fast @_@~

hmm i could prolly pull it off with the 1 year one, and that one is up in the air atm, I kind of admitted to these feelings to her, but it was only as a reaction to her saying that she wanted to f*ck me (which i dunno wtf she was thinking about by telling me it, because she has a bf and she knows how crazy i get when my romantic feelings get fondled.) I think that one may be salvagable if we agree to not flirt and act like eachotehr's bf anf gf...

as for the 10 year one... well... please refer to this thread and tell me if you could live with being in a situation like that. it stems beyond a "silly infatuation" with her.. for awhile I really believed she was my soul mate and the woman i was going to marry.

To everyone else: thanks for all the insight i know it may seem like I'm being defensive. But everything you guys are saying is being absorbed and I appreciate all the difference in opinions. Keep them coming.

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throw out the nice guy routine.. girls don't buy it. Cocky and funny is the way to go.

If you ever wonder what you should be doing with a girl just remember all the advice your mom gave you and do the exact opposite.

It's really an odd perspective for comparison, gender wise I mean. Almost everything guys and girls do feels different in some way. Hell, women feel pain differently than men do, which is baffling to me oO.

As much as I hate saying it, the general downfall of most men is their short-sightedness. I don't know if I would pass a situation like this off as being selfish. The future of being with another person is on anyone's mind, as well as it should be; however, evaluating the short term eases a guys mind, perhaps because of an innate nature to be knowledgable, (concept of knowledge being powerful, perhaps? An entirely different topic. ;p)

For women, I'm not so sure. I think this is one of those things that makes guys say, "omg women are so confusing!111oneone"

Perhaps being sentimental about the past allows a person to look further ahead into the future without the present clouding their judgment. Not in the sense of "What could I have done to fix things?" obviously. More in the sense of remembering all the good moments in the past. It's a pretty outlandish statement, but it sort of makes sense, at least to me. Girls are typically more sentimental than guys, so maybe the long term perspective is easier to look at and plan for. (Feel free to comment on this, I'm not really sure if I'm making any sense at all, haha.)

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Aside- Why does the cocky and funny routine work? Probably because people of the opposite gender are attracted to confidence and thusly become more interested in finding out if that person is really just that big of an asshole, or if they're something else.

Just my thoughts.

Some things are best unsaid, even though you may have feelings for them, i'd rather still be friends than rather not be any at all.

You kinda have to know whats right and wrong to go about this, in all honesty i think you lead yourself on to this, Flirting with friends is entirly different than that of flirting with people whom are attracted tword one another. (if i read this thread right) youve been friend with this girl for 10 years yes? dont you think if there really was a major connection or w/e it would have already happened?

you took the risk of ruining the relationship which was bad planning on your part if you werent sure about the feelings she had tword you.

one mroe thing thats kinda bugging me with this, is have you asked her why? on friendly grounds. Cause your telling us how you feel and everything but then again your making her seem like a bad person because she didnt return the same feelings. You shouldnt beat yourself up because one girl didnt like you for a relationship theres millions of other girls out there.

"1. we should all be so lucky to have everyone we meet/hang out with want to fuck us, women are so lucky in this regard and see it as such a negative thing, what a waste/dissapointment."

so your telling me that all of our friends should want to have sex with us? im sure as hell there are some people i hang out with and love as family that i wouldnt want to have sex with them or even make out or w/e your thinking.

"2. i hate when the women have broken it down to me like this [the only reason someone hangs out with you is because they want to fuck/have relations with you?] (because both have) it's not really about wanting to fuck them.. again, it's about being in love with them. And you think they'd be flattered but oh no, it's like you raped their puppy in front of them. "

you developed a friendly relationship with someone, you cant expect them to automaticly agree to everything you want done or w/e.

"3. and why lead someone on who you know has that desire for you? Does it sattisfy some urge to have someone constantly around you that wants you that you can just play around with when you need a pick me up? Because I feel like I've played that role. I wish they would've just said, "no you're unattractive" and left it at that the first week i knew them both.. innocent victims they are not."

To my understanding girls dont wanna hurt peoples feelings by saying there unattractive, by doing that it could make the guy feel like hes not good enough for anyone. You keep beating yourself up on something that coulda been solved right there and then, it may be hard but you need to get over it and learn from your mistakes otherwise your gonna mop around the rest of your life because your best friend or w/e didnt want to be in a serious relationship with you.

if i made any sence, im sry if i was mean but im sharing my opinon.

also the cocky routine is a sign of weakness imo like your hideing something to distract with your behavior, some girls maybe into it but alot of guys find you to be annoying and a asshole

Almost everyone has modified their behavior in some way at some point to adapt to social situations whether they realize it or not.

true but i hate cocky people

i hate cocky people too, but i also think fossil is right, i wind up in these situations because i'm a nice guy, women see that and automatically think friendship. This is so disheartening and upseting to me that i blasted converge the whole way home and screamed my fucking head off to the point that I'm hoarse now, I know that to have any shot at ever being with someone I have to be some cocky arrogant asshole and not myself.. the nice guy. Thank you life, Thank you God, Thank you women.. and fuck you. I'm done with this topic

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