oh, another thing that is based on what urza said.

If there is a god and he is the supreme being, why is his self-esteem so low that people need to go and worship him on sundays? It should be enough that we are living our lives to the best of our abilities for the greater good so that he can see his creations prosper.

I still believe, with the attrocities we have had in the past 100 years and before then (crusades anyone?) that god does not exist, because if I were given rule over any number of people, I would not let the bad things that have occurred go on like they did.

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I dont know how you guys come up with somethings...
But as far as i know, God doesnt need you to worship him.
He doesnt need you or me. Think of it kinda like this,
worshiping god is kinda like a job, you do it, you get payed,
you dont, well you wont get any god checks lol.

Some like to do their jobs, some dont like to but they have to,
and some dont work at all. Its your choice, not a demand.

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If you want to see a very logical and step by step process explaining why Christians believe what they do, I would suggest checking out the book, Mere Christianity, by C.S. Lewis.

Being a Christian, of course I believe in God. Why? Several reasons I guess. The obvious first reason would be my family. I grew up in the right environment, and had good examples to follow in my family. I also saw some of the positive effects that Christianity had to offer. As I have become older, I have questioned why I believe what I do concerning religion. The simple answer is that I have seen the "proof" of Christianity. Not necessarily that you can prove the existence of God, but you can see proof of belief and faith in God, and its results. I have never seen negative results from the "true" practice of Christianity. Mainly, like others have pointed out, it is people who claim to be Christians but do not live like it that cause the most problems.

To illustrate one reason why I believe, one minister I had growing up gave me this analogy, which is simplified of course: compare Christianity to insurance. If it turns out you were wrong and didn't need it, where is the harm? If it turns out you did need it, you are sure going to be glad you had it. Again, a very simplistic view, but it gets the point across.

If I am making a mistake in my belief, so be it. But I would much rather make the mistake in believing in something, than the mistake of disbelief, for its obvious consequences.

There have been several theological questions raised, and to go through each of them would make this post unbearably long. If you have specific questions about a Christian's point of view, PM me and I would be happy to share.

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LS: TheMonarchy
The Bearded Hume Player/Coach for the Washington Generals
"I got the fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell!"

One thing I wanted to address: balancing the concept of God and the horrible things that go on in the world. One phrase can answer the question: free will.

Let's say for arguments' sake that you were God. You created a bunch of stuff, and then people. You love these people and you want them to love you. Here is the dilemma: if you create them in such a way that they must love you, then is that really love? To me this would be more like robots that are programmed. So the problem that exists is that if you give people a choice (free will) they can choose to love God (what He wants) or they can choose not to.

So the answer to the question about why does God allow people to do horrible things is that he must in order to give us a choice. When people choose to do things that are wrong, they suffer as well as making others suffer. That is why our choices can affect others in a positive or negative way. And this is why there will always be "evil" in the world, because God allows us to choose which path we will take.

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LS: TheMonarchy
The Bearded Hume Player/Coach for the Washington Generals
"I got the fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell!"

I believe there is a God that created us. But I dont think he created us as we are today. I believe firmly in evolution in the sense that we are evolving. Not from monkeys or such but I think God imprinted into us the ability to evolve. If he hadnt then we would all be dead by now. As for there being wrong in this world I think there has to be. Evil deeds make you see good as what it ought to be. If there was no evil in the world would anyone know what good is? Would we even care if ppl were good? There has to be evil in order for good to exist. Hence the devil and God. Plus God probably didnt want to be bored watching us for millions of years so he spiced it up with some drama^^. I know I would have.

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Not to be a dick or anything, and I respect your views and all.. But you shouldn't believe in something just because of maybes and might bes. You should believe because quite simply... you believe... lol

I agree with that. Faith shouldnt have to be explained. You think what you think and thats all there is to it. I hate how bible thumping idiots will shout at ppl to believe and crap like that. If they dont want to then dont bother. They have their own set of beliefs. I am one of those ppl that has taken from many religions to form my own set of beliefs. Im not christian, muslim, jewish, or taoist, but I believe principals from each and everyone and I think some principals are wrong in each and everyone one. There is no perfect religion.

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Great post, Original.

If you were to take a look at my life and how I live without any knowledge of my religious beliefs, you would think I am a Christian. I understand everyithing you have said and I agree with a lot of it.

It's easy for people to get lost in their beliefs, though. People have this tendancy to decide what they believe and stick to it. To say that someone is a "bad" person for not believeing in God is rather rediculous. Not that you said that but reading your post brought back some previous conversations I have had with some closed-minded Christians.

I also have to agree with your feelings about why people do "bad" things in the name of God. It's not God doing these things but it's the people's choice to do these things.

:D

I was raised Catholic and I don't believe in God. I don't mind when religious groups knock on my door and give me magazines and read me passages from their Bible. I think it is really interesting to learn about other beliefs and faiths. I honestly don't know what is out there or how we were really created, nor am I going to try to pretend that I do. I know that I value life and everything good or bad that comes with it because I may only have one shot at it.

i dont believe in anything spiritual

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RIP Shiloh - I'll never forget ya

God I'm so done with these forums. Bye

I believe in arthars.

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COBRA KAI DOJO NEVER DIES
RIP Shiloh

I don't believe in A God persay, but i do believe there is something out there that is ether god like or is god.

Religion is extremly interesting to me, its really amazing to learn about the faiths of other people and why they belive it and what not.

I for one don't exactly belive in a religion, i believe in my own faith that i am able to continue without having to look,pray,worship,w/e at someone for guidence.

I don't disagree with religion, They have a right to believe in what they want, and read about how the religion came around or w/e happens.

But some religions advertise themselves, that right there kinda tells me. its a crock of bullshit. Faith shouldn't be advertised nor should it be brought door to door or handed out on flyers. Faith should be discovered imo =/

But anyways i dont believe in a certain religion, but i feel something happened and something created everything.

sry for getting a lil off topic

Define "god."

Is he the all powerful being floating in the cosmos or is he merely the catalyst, a catalyst we don't understand, that ignited the big bang.


oh, and


FLAME FLAME HEY LOOK EVERYONE I'M FUCKING UP THE THREAD HAHAHAH THATS WHAT I LIVE TO DO---FUCK UP TTHREADS HAHAHHA
ALL OF YOUR OPINIONS ARE BULLSHIT!!!@J()@!&$#)(@&$#@()&$#)@(& beucase i flammee

your just proving the point -.-

anyways keep the thread going it's nice to have good convo's like this and see everyones opinons on this matter.

Way to go, Arim. You win the prize of being the most clueless person here.

What would be the point of having earth?

I mean, if there is heaven and hell, why would we need earth? You might say "god needs to find the good and the bad" but you know what? I've never stolen anything, or murdered anyone, I donate to charity, I volunteer all the time, but because I don't believe in this supreme being, that I am destined to follow the same fate as them?

I firmly believe that religion is a way to keep people motivated so that they have hopes, and dreams, but I can not believe the end to be true. There are so many religions that it makes one wonder where they all came from, and if one must be right, which one is indeed the right one (South park anyone)?

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Not really. If you read the bible there are parts saying that during the Apocalypse many ppl will die. But Jesus will venture into hell before the very end and seek ppl that want to go to heaven. Basically if your in hell and Jesus says "wanna go be in paradise?" you have to be pretty fucked up to not say yes

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Theres alot of good discussion going on here, nice. I'm actually sorta suprised. I thought some people here were more conservative with this kind of thing.

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Retired 8/21/06
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i dunno. i just gotta say, how can there be a "big bang" with NOTHING??
i mean science really hasnt made a way to make something out of nothing? so how can there be a "bang" with nothing. thats about all i have to say.

We can easily trace the bigbang to something like 1 trillionth of a second, however the catalyst is something we aren't sure of. It's something we as humans don't have the capacity to understand, or such an alien and complex concept humans may never get it.

That, to me, could be classifed as "god", however I don't think of "god" as the all powerful being who made adam and eve and orders us to hate homosexuals.

Its simply pysics we don't understand yet. Trying to grasp what was before the "Big Bang" is like trying to understand what happens to your concious when you die (bad analogy, bear with me). We can't measure or see what was before the Big Bang like how we can't see what happens to your concious or perspective when you die.

However, moving slightly off topic, our known universe is behaving erratically. Its doing things that technically shouldn't happen from our current understanding of physics. For example: the universe is expanding faster than the speed of light and some galaxies are moving away from us faster than the speed of light (nothing can travel faster than light fyi from our current understanding of pysics).. We know this because the light emanating from these galaxies is fading out from our current view from earth, meaning eventually they'll be moving away faster than their light can reach us (I think thats how it works, it inolves the universe "stretching" its weird, go google it, haha). Another weird thing is that recent studies have shown that also the "stretching" of the universe is accelerating. Granted we only have a limited view point of our known universe, but we work with what we have. This means they're alot of things that will take a long, long while for us to figure out. Now, back to the point I was making earlier, these are things that we probably won't ever figure out.

Lastly, to interject what I think, haha. I believe the Universe will expand until it collopases in on itself. The density of the universe, eventually, will make it so that it will fall in on itself and become smaller then a grain of sand again. This grain of sand will then expand again and we have another Big Bang. The whole process starts over. Everything, I think. in our known universe works in a cycle. The stars down to plants and animals. Life and death, etc. Its all just really a matter of time. Only thing I can think of right now that doesn't fit with that is black holes. Then again humanity won't be alive to see the universe collapse (if it does) since our Sun will run out of fuel, expand, and consume earth in a fiery blaze, yay! But that won't be for a about 5 billion years.

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Retired 8/21/06
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42

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WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

OK I wanted to cover two topics, first let's talk about origins of the universe, earth, etc. I have no problem believing that the Big Bang occurred, or that in some way evolution had some part in the appearance of humans on the earth. But think about it like this. In all of science, when is order created out of chaos? Things break down over time, and become less orderly. So for the Big Bang theory to make sense, something or someone had to be directing how things developed. I would make the same case in evolution. We know that certain species can make adaptations to their surroundings. But how in the world would evolution be possible, what would be the odds of starting with one celled organisms and ending up with complex beings like humans if there were no "God" calling the shots. Belief in evolution without God would seem to take more faith than the alternative view.

The other topic I wanted to discuss is the concept of good and bad people and the afterlife. From a theological perspective, I believe that there will be good people who don't go to heaven. Now I'm not God, and from a practical perspective I really hope I'm wrong and all good people will go to heaven. Christianity really is not about being a good person and looking down on those who don't believe. It really is not about that at all. Trying to be a good person can be a product of Christianity, but no one who has studied the Bible can say with certainty that being a good person will get you to heaven. This is the real message of Christianity: not one person deserves to go to heaven, every single person that lives on the earth has done things that are wrong. Here is the good part that I hope people can focus on: God, in the person of Jesus, sacrificed himself when he was not guilty of anything, for every person who has since lived so that we could go to heaven in spite of ourselves. So, in conclusion, no Christian should feel conceited about their own actions, because we all have gotten a free lunch here. We just have to decide to accept it to receive the benefits.

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LS: TheMonarchy
The Bearded Hume Player/Coach for the Washington Generals
"I got the fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell!"