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 Post subject: Soon end of HNM monopolization?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:17 am 
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As I have understand it, some HNM's like King Behemoth, King Arthro, Nidhogg etc are nearly unclaimable for NA linshells because of JP linkshells such as KFC that monopolize HNM spawns and have advantage in latency or use bots/packet sniffers.
Appearently GMs are now thinking of making these HNMs spawnable the same way the gods in Tu'Lia are spawned, giving all the players a chance to claim them.
This is what I found on KI:
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As we all know the monopolization of monsters in this game (Final Fantasy XI) is an annoyance and something that I understand is one of the things the development team is trying to help prevent. Currently there are certain monsters in this game which will only spawn once a day, people do not wish to fight these monsters to obtain large amounts of game currency but to acquire items which can only be obtained by defeating these monsters. Not only do these monsters only spawn once a day but there is a three hour window in which they may spawn, currently the standard method is to take as many people as possible to the area around the time the monster is due to spawn and hope to provoke it before any other linkshell. This leads to the use of third party programs in order to gain an upper hand over other people in the area something which I know Square Enix is against and after the following conversation I had with one of your GM staff I am in the understanding that it is something you are unable to detect;

Marath > so unless the 3rd party program is in use when the GM investigates there is no way to catch them?
GM Kazrift > This limitation exists for programs that spam provoke, chii blast, etc.. And yes, unless it is in use there is no way to catch them.

During this conversation the GM Kazrift explained that unless a GM is present when these types of programs are in use they are not able to be detected using the tools that GMs currently have available to them. This petition is not aimed at making it harder to pull monsters or changing any ping delays that exist in this game but to change the way in which these monsters spawn.

In the area Tu’Lia there are monsters such as Kirin, Genbu, Suzaku, Seiryu and Byakko who spawn under the condition that a set of items is traded to a ??? in Ru’aun Gardens or Shrine of Ru’Avitau. My suggestion is that the monsters Behemoth, King Behemoth, Fafnir, Nidhogg, Adamantoise and Aspidochelone be changed to a similar condition. I asked the GM Kazrift if this seemed like a feasible idea to them and they not only said that it was but that GMs working for Square Enix had suggested it before me

Marath > i have an idea on how to make the spawns of these NMs fair but if i make a suggestion to the development team
Marath > what are the chances that it will be implemented?
GM Kazrift > Depends on the feasibility. You can make suggestions through the Feedback email form that is in the Service and Support section of the POL viewer and every single one is read by the development team.
Marath > my idea is to make the NMs such as Fafnir/Nidhogg have the same spawn contitions as say Genbu or Suzaku
Marath > how feasible would you think that idea is?
GM Kazrift > Very. I think it is a good idea as well and some GMs have proposed this idea.

I submit this as a suggestion to you as the current situation is not something that can be enjoyed by everyone and waiting for three hours in an area for a monster to spawn then having someone who is using a third party program to attack the monster before you is unfair.

As to how this could be implemented;

In the area outside Dragon’s Aery there are Malboro type monsters that are never fought for experience, inside the Aery there are Darters and Spiders that also go untouched, it would be possible to make one or two of these monsters drop the items needed to spawn Fafnir by trading to a ??? inside the area where the monster would usually spawn, Fafnir could drop a seal (Much like Genbu) which could be traded to the same ??? to spawn Nidhogg.

Adamantoise/Aspidochelone in Valley of sorrows is in an area of Manticore, Giant Birds and Raptors which are so deep in the area that they are never used for experience points these could be used to hold items needed to trade to a ??? in order to spawn Adamantoise who once defeated would drop a seal which could be traded to the same ??? in order to spawn Aspidochelone

As for Behemoth/King Behemoth this one puzzled me for a while as the only monsters in this area are low level monsters and would not prove much of a challenge then I thought slightly further a field to Delkfutt’s Tower on the very upper levels are Magic Pots and Giants which are never used for experience points and could hold the items needed to spawn Behemoth from a ??? in Behemoth’s Dominion again once defeated Behemoth would drop a seal which could be used to spawn King Behemoth from the same ???

A lot of monsters already use this process to spawn them and none of these monsters or the items needed are monopolized because there is enough time in the day to spawn enough monsters for everyone to fight.

Discuss.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:54 am 
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That would be awesome, it would make the game fun for everyone, so you don't have to waste like 1-5 hours camping for a spawn which is near impossible to get. Some people call camping fun though, so I dont know.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:05 am 
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I can see it now.....
In order to pop Gods in {sea} if and when {sea} gets Gods, you would need pop items and seals from not only Sky, but from these 3 as well, However only the HQ versions of the Land Kings drop a seal and they only pop every once in a while when u trade to the ??? when they make one in the proposed areas.......marketing genius!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:17 am 
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well this would also kinda follow FF story lines or w/e, like in previous FF you need to trade or complete certain tasks in order to fight the side/god/summons bosses. i think this would be really cool and much more convienent. i look forwardf to seeing this when i get my taru mnk up there


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:31 am 
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that would be awsome... :D hope they implement it soon :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:58 am 
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I don't know if it will happen though it would be nice. Nothing sucks more than sitting at a spawn for 3 hours only to have wasted your time because you got out provoked. Even if its done in a fair way it still sucks... hehe

They should just introduce a new set of 5 gods in sea that drop the Abj. that the land gods currently drop. The 4 lesser ones should drop many of the rarer hand, leg, head and feet Abj's while the 5th should drop the rare body Abj's. This would give people motivation to actually do CoP missions and allow us a fair chance at getting these coveted armors.

Only problem that leaves is the stupid Black Belt quest...

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:08 pm 
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That sounds awesome. Hopefully the pop items can only be used once per day and are rare/ex. Only problem being people could begin to monopolize the items themselves. But honestly if your so hell bent on someone not getting an item you will waste everyday all day killing everything that drops the item....you have issues....

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:15 pm 
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I can see Square making 345390 billions "Water camp" everywhere instead of making relatively easy to get item.

We already discussed many time in ls about a solution to that problem and this one come back a few time. I think it would be the best, but farming for those item wouldnt necessarily be fun.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:16 pm 
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Kaylia wrote:
I can see Square making 345390 billions "Water camp" everywhere instead of making relatively easy to get item.

We already discussed many time in ls about a solution to that problem and this one come back a few time. I think it would be the best, but farming for those item wouldnt necessarily be fun.



More fun then waiting 3hrs to not get anything :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:36 pm 
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all they really need to do is make Kirin have the possibility to drop all the body Abj., and give the 4 gods the possibility to drop the abj that land stuff drops.

or do this in Sea, doesn't really matter but we need a way to force spawn stuff that drops every abj.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 2:12 pm 
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If they did this, and it was even *worse* than water camp, I honestly wouldn't mind... the challenge should be in killing the NM not in knowing 17 other people that don't sleep and winning voke ;/

At least farming the items I could get more xp buffer for when I die so much :D


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 2:30 pm 
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Logical question, I think. IF GMs are aware that packet sniffers, etc are being used, and can detect it when it's in use; why then are they not assigning a GM to these areas during the spawn time to detect them? Doesn't this make as much sense as making u get items? Let's get rid of the gilsellers and HNM hogs - the current proposal imo doesn't do that.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 2:32 pm 
Youre a Crappy HNM like Roc or something
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1.) People would still whore the items everyday all day, even if they could only kill once per 24 hours. Also there would have to be 230984203942 places to obtain the items since there are several HNMls who want to kill these things, not to mention many more would form because of the ease of claiming these NMs.

2) Areas where the NMs pop still aren't restricted to the people popping the NM alone. Mbs can still go unclaimed while kiting, leading to MPK issues and the what not.

3) What exactly would be the difference in the items to getting NQ and HQ hnm? Some people want to fight Fafnir because it drops certain abjurations, (a.hands n.feet a.feet,) while others want to fight Nidhogg for other abjurations, (e.body n.legs) If it were a lottery, I don't think having it solely based on chance would make people very happy.

4.) Gilsellers! Giving gilsellers the opportunity to whore items worth 2-3 mil (behe hide for example.) As far as I know there's a group of gilsellers who whore genbu and some of the other gods now as it is. Irritation: O

Just my thoughts. =/


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 3:09 pm 
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wtf??? gil sellers got sky?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 4:04 pm 
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What stops them from camping the pop items 24/7 ?

:?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 4:08 pm 
Youre a Crappy HNM like Roc or something
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Yeah that's my biggest complaint (see above.)

If a particular linkshell can dedicate themselves to camping in three spots for up to 9 hours a day, (this is over 1/3 of a day >.>) what's to say they won't whore the items, do the HNM and go back? Or run in schedules.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 4:29 pm 
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i had an idea to leave a HNM unclaimed for say, 30 seconds. whoever tags it in this 30 seconds time will be randomly assigned claim. but then i came to the conclusion people would set up there ps2 and bring mules and shit just to up the percentage theyd get it. its hard to find a solution to this. im still hoping sea will offer a more sky way of getting the abjurations only kings drop, but who knows maybe the reason we can get all the sky stuff we want is because they dont drop the good abjurations, so lack of competition.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 4:53 pm 
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I am with Shiloh on this one. It seems the most logical answer is to create {sea} gods that drop all the Abj. that the Land Kings drop. This will give ppl the motivation to actually complete all the CoP missions. 4 new gods and a mega main god (like Kirin) should be placed into {sea}. Should have pop items just like {sky} does now. This will also spread out {sky} from being so crowded. Some LSs will want to do the {sea} gods and some will want to do the {sky} gods. Maybe 3 of the {sea} gods could drop the items for the BB to solve that problem. I dunno, just my thoughts.^^

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:31 pm 
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here's a simple solution, just have the BC99 drop the abj's and blackbelt quest items.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:43 pm 
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Dtec wrote:
here's a simple solution, just have the BC99 drop the abj's and blackbelt quest items.


theyre alot harder is my complaint, thats like saying lich paper drop rate sucks so add it on spartoi mage loot table

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:45 pm 
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I wonder how many level 50's you'd have to throw at a Spartoi Mage before it dies.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:18 pm 
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Rubyxiii wrote:
Dtec wrote:
here's a simple solution, just have the BC99 drop the abj's and blackbelt quest items.


theyre alot harder is my complaint, thats like saying lich paper drop rate sucks so add it on spartoi mage loot table


yeah I agree, the BC99's are alot harder, but that's why the abj and the blackbelt is so rare, right? if claiming fafnir or nidhogg (or the BC99's) was easy then everybody and their mother would have an adaman hauberk. but us NA's should be given a chance, which is why it would be a great idea for the BC99's to drop the items. we should be rewarded by killing a hard boss, not by "outvoking" another LS.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:21 pm 
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Only problem is that by doing this it would make the abjs way too common and would be kind of meaningless, just like how Nobles Tunic is now it seems. SE should just add a 5% chance abj. drop to Genbu/Suzaku/Seiryu/Byakko/Kirin that normally comes from the 21-24h HNMs.

As for the Black Belt quest, it should be BCNM orientated for an alliance, sort of like how the BCNM99s are now. Same difficulty, but no need of seals; instead of seals, make the item required for the BCs be obtainable only at certain times such as the Ark Angel BC item, and have there be three different items for three different BCs. Also, put a weekly time restriction on the BCs so that you can't keep trying them over and over (although only the person on the Black Belt quest that handed the item into the BC circle would get credit for completing that BC).

Example: For the Behemoth Black Belt BC99, you would have to kill Orcish Champions in Davoi/Monastic Cavern for a rare/ex item drop. You would take this item to a NPC in Davoi that only appears at a certain time and trade it to get a key item, which you can take to the Horlais Peak BC circle to enter the Behemoth BC with 17 other people than yourself. The BC would be the same difficulty as the ones now, and would only give the person that first handed the item in a "Behemoth Tongue" key item when completed. Exp loss would still exist in these BCs unlike ENMs, however, so you couldn't just keep spamming Reraise and trying again and again unless you wanted to lose a few levels in the process.

I know I stole the example from the ENMs that already exist, but it seems like a good solution to me for a couple of reasons:

1) It's better than spending eight months on a quest just to try to beat botters to the claim, watching your friends waste their time at camps just to see other people fight the HNMs you were there for (I'll never forget how much everyone in CKD helped me out to get my belt... if I could have all your names inscribed on it saying "hi i didn't get this by myself so stop acting like it's really mine when you examine me" I would)

2) It would mean that noone could just join a linkshell to leech the items then leave, unless for some reason 17 people that didn't give a crap about that person decided to help them and more than likely lose exp in the process (doesn't seem likely)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:29 pm 
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Kayne wrote:
Only problem is that by doing this it would make the abjs way too common and would be kind of meaningless, just like how Nobles Tunic is now it seems. SE should just add a 5% chance abj. drop to Genbu/Suzaku/Seiryu/Byakko/Kirin that normally comes from the 21-24h HNMs.


i agree with you to an extent. but do you know how hard those BC99's are? and do you know how long it will take to get 99 kindred seals (unless you're a beastmaster)? trust me if the abj drop from BC99 they will still be rare. i'm not gonna lie to you my LS is like 0/3 or 0/4 against BC99 king behemoth. we got close once but ran out of time.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:51 pm 
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The king behmoth BC99 is pretty easy once people get the hang of it. After you win once you probably wont ever lose to it again.

KFC farms the shit out of the BC too from what i can tell - not that any of them would need those abj but w/e lol.


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